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Thread: Under-rated Studs In Multicat Leagues

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    Default Under-rated Studs In Multicat Leagues

    I am in the first season of a h2h multi-cat keeper league with the following cats: G, A, PPP, SOG, +/-, hits, PIM, shp, bs.

    Despite the cats that reward gritty defensive play, multi-cat guys get no respect. I was able to snag guys like Backes, Brown, Callahan, Lucic much later in the draft than I should have. Based on the numbers from HPG, they are all top 25 players, with Backes being the 3rd ranked skater last season based on my league's cats. He only finished behind Malkin and Hartnell! Despite that, I got him the in third round and then got Callahan, Lucic, Brown in rounds 8+.

    My team is built around multi-cat contributers and strong goaltending (Lundqvist, Ward, Hiller), and I am looking to add a little offense. Everyone in my league is blinded by the sexy stats and I cant even get a manager to trade me eberle (ranked 160th overall last season) for Backes. So frustrating.....I'm offering to overpay for guys like Eberle, TAvares, etc.....offensive studs that only help in a few cats.

    Anyone have any advice for how to get a deal done? Or are my fellow managers just fools that will never see the light?.....until I crush them with my multi-cat domination that is.....
    10 team, head-to-head, multi-cat, keep-12 keeper league. CATS: G,A,+/-,PPP,PIM,SOG,HITS BS,SHP, W,SV,SV%,GAA,SO Daily rosters of 6F,4D,2G

    F: Crosby, Hall, Pacioretty, Callahan, Hartnell, MacArthur, Semin
    D: Karlsson, Hedman, McDonagh, Gudas, Burns
    G: Lundqvist, Quick, Mason

    Farm: Grigorenko

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    well is each stats judged on its on merits or do all stats pool into points for a total at seasons end?

    Theres a BIG difference!

    if its the latter then yes they are huge fools, but I have a hunch this is not the case...

    Some people when dealing only see pure offensive upside and are completely oblivious to other important stats that a league may use.

    These people are idiots and will lose every year until they realise they need a well balanced team with all the stats covered across the board.
    Pre playoff standings 2014
    HTW - 2/12, UNFFHL - 4/24
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    Need more 1s...

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    It is a head-to-head league where every category is worth one point every week. ie. there are 14 categories, so if I win 10 of them against you one week, then my record is 10-4.
    10 team, head-to-head, multi-cat, keep-12 keeper league. CATS: G,A,+/-,PPP,PIM,SOG,HITS BS,SHP, W,SV,SV%,GAA,SO Daily rosters of 6F,4D,2G

    F: Crosby, Hall, Pacioretty, Callahan, Hartnell, MacArthur, Semin
    D: Karlsson, Hedman, McDonagh, Gudas, Burns
    G: Lundqvist, Quick, Mason

    Farm: Grigorenko

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    bump. anyone?
    10 team, head-to-head, multi-cat, keep-12 keeper league. CATS: G,A,+/-,PPP,PIM,SOG,HITS BS,SHP, W,SV,SV%,GAA,SO Daily rosters of 6F,4D,2G

    F: Crosby, Hall, Pacioretty, Callahan, Hartnell, MacArthur, Semin
    D: Karlsson, Hedman, McDonagh, Gudas, Burns
    G: Lundqvist, Quick, Mason

    Farm: Grigorenko

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    you might have to wait a few weeks until a couple of guys realize they are consistently losing certain categories....
    Team 1:
    18 team HTH - Keep 5:

    G, A, +/-, PPP, SHP, PIM, HITS, BS
    W, GAA, SV%, SO

    C - Giroux (RW), MacKinnon, Hanzal, Bozak
    LW - Moulson, Hartnell
    RW - Neal (LW), Wheeler
    D - Burns, Gudas. Enstrom, Trouba, Sekera
    G - Halak, Schneider, Elliott
    IR - Rinne


    Team 2:
    14 team HTH - keep 5 (1 at each position).

    G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, GWG, HIT, BLK
    W, GAA, SV%, SO

    C - Crosby, Giroux (RW), Hanzal
    LW - Benn, Jokinen
    RW - Neal (LW), Wheeler, Vrbata, Simmonds
    D - Subban, Burns (RW), Gudas, Martin

    G - Halak, Khudobin

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    Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if your assessment of them as 'fools who will never see the light' won't prove to be true, at least for a couple years. I run a similar league that uses Hits and Blocked Shots but where we weight the stats (so a Pt=1 but a blocked shot = 0.2 pts, a hit = 0.08 pts etc) so a guy like Cally (who I own) for example is more or less equal in value to Henrik Sedin but as you note, he does this in an unsexy gritty sorta way that many GMs aren't used to in their fantasy leagues. So for the first 2 or 3 years of our league I would get these stupid lowball offers for him or if I was offering him in a trade they would never value him fairly so I just gave up. But now that everyone has played the format for several years it has finally sunk in and I get fair offers for guys like that.

    Anyway I'm rambling but my advice to you is to stay the course and reap the benefits, don't be too eager to correct their thinking cause you'll be the one counting the money at the end of the year. Those who don't understand or appreciate the league format do so at their own peril!
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    I realize I sorta didn't answer your direct question on how to swing a deal -lol

    can you post your roster? that would help
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    if your roster is good enough to beat them why would you overpay to get players who arent as good as the ones you have

    am i missing something here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Blaster View Post
    I am in the first season of a h2h multi-cat keeper league with the following cats: G, A, PPP, SOG, +/-, hits, PIM, shp, bs.

    Despite the cats that reward gritty defensive play, multi-cat guys get no respect. I was able to snag guys like Backes, Brown, Callahan, Lucic much later in the draft than I should have. Based on the numbers from HPG, they are all top 25 players, with Backes being the 3rd ranked skater last season based on my league's cats. He only finished behind Malkin and Hartnell! Despite that, I got him the in third round and then got Callahan, Lucic, Brown in rounds 8+.

    My team is built around multi-cat contributers and strong goaltending (Lundqvist, Ward, Hiller), and I am looking to add a little offense. Everyone in my league is blinded by the sexy stats and I cant even get a manager to trade me eberle (ranked 160th overall last season) for Backes.

    Anyone have any advice for how to get a deal done? Or are my fellow managers just fools that will never see the light?.....until I crush them with my multi-cat domination that is.....

    Pretend there are two teams that each have 9 players.
    Each player gets a rating out of 10:

    Team A has the following players: 10,10,10,10,10...2,2,2,1
    That's 37 points of value.

    Team B has the following players: 5, 5, 5, 5, 5...10,10,1,1
    That's 37 points of value.


    Now, let's pretend that each guy is going "head-to-head" with another player on the other team. (i.e. Ryder Cup style)

    10 vs 5: Team A wins
    10 vs 5: Team A wins
    10 vs 5: Team A Wins
    10 vs 5: Team A wins
    10 vs 5: Team A wins
    2 vs 10: Team B wins
    2 vs 10: Team B wins
    2 vs 1: Team A wins
    1 vs 1: Tie

    Final Score: 6-2-1 Team A Wins.

    Q: What is the point?
    A: The point is that sometimes people "overdo it" in a category. In H2H, this can be a big fail. You need to win at least half the categories to win a H2H match-up. And you only need to win a category by a slim margin, not by an enormous margin. A category win = a category win.

    In the 3rd round, you might get David Backes:
    25G (5), 25A (5), 10 PPP (4), 150 SOG (5), 100 PIM (10), 200 Hits (10)

    Somebody else might snag Jordan Eberle:
    30G (6), 30A (6), 15 PPP (5), 180 SOG (6), 10 PIM (1), 20 Hits (1)

    Now, there are also cumulative "scores" based on a player's category value.
    Perhaps 50G = a full 10.0 score.
    So there scores in brackets are listed above.

    Backes total "score" (or "value") would add up to 39.
    Eberle's total "score" (or "value") would add up to 25.

    So Backes is WAY more valuable, cumulatively, than Eberle.
    However, Eberle beats Backes in 4 of 6 categories.

    See how that works?



    As a summary:
    You have to draft your team based on your league's tendencies.
    If your fellow GMs are only drafting 200 total hits on their roster, you only need to draft 250 hits.
    You want to balance your team to win as many categories as possible.
    Category domination is not required... just category wins.

    Teams won't trade Eberle for Backes... because they are worried that giving away Eberle might cost 4 categories... whereas gaining Backes may only ensure TWO.

    Clear?
    Last edited by Pengwin7; February 6, 2013 at 6:14 PM.

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    Getting back to the title of the post, I'll give a shout out to Wayne Simmonds who's a solid multi-cat guy. He's been great for me until the recent concussion so keep an eye on him, hopefully he returns soon.
    16 Team Keeper League. Weekly Head to Head. Keep 8.
    No Forward Positional Requirements
    F (Start 6): Kane, Neal, Parise, Benn, Simmonds, Bergeron, Kreider, Jagr, Nichushkin
    D (Start 4): Pietrangelo, Ekman-Larsson, Enstrom, Hamilton, Carle, Faulk
    G (Start 1): Lundqvist

    Point System
    G=2, A=1, PIM=0.5, +/-=1, Shot=0.1, PPG=1, PPA=1, DefenseG=+1, DefenseA=+1, GWG=1, OTG=1, PenaltyShotG=1, SHG=2, ShootOutG=1 , Hat Trick=3

    Goalie Points
    W=4, S= 0.14, GA=-1, OW=1, ShootOutW =1, SO=2

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    Awesome post by Pengwin.

    My plan next year is to break both my hockey and basketball leagues like so and draft my non-keepers accordingly rather than always trying to get the ebst player available as trades aren't always as easy to come by as one might hope.
    16 tm pts only sal cap full keeper
    F:Malkin, Spezza, Kessel, H.Sedin, Elias, Turris, Wilson, Jagr, Zuccarello, Boyes, C.Smith, Zajac, McGinn
    D:Carlson, Krug, Josi, Franson
    G:Fleury, Kuemper
    Farm: Strome, Armia, Sproul, Nieves, Shore, Coyle
    IR: D.Sedin

    16 tm H2H keeper w/ [contracts]
    G A +/- PIM STP GWG W SO GAA SV%
    C: Spezza[1], Ribeiro[1], Little
    LW: Sharp[3], Benn(C)[2], Marleau[1], Clowe[4], Higgins
    RW: Ryan[3], St.Louis[1], Iginla[1], Franzen(C)[2]
    D: Chara[2], Hamhuis, Gudas, Rielly
    G:Rask[1], Bobrovsky[2], Nabokov
    IR: Letang[2], Dorsett

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    My dynasty league is multi-cat with a cap, and it's astounding to me how many people give up after a few days because it's too deep for them. The tendency of people here and fans in general is to be what I call starf%uckers. They think the side getting the biggest scorer (G and A) is always the winner and that carries over to multiple category leagues as well.

    The average person today has a large amount of knowledge available to them but is quite ignorant and lacks wisdom. Ignorance cannot be forced away from a person, period. Use that insight to your advantage, good sir.
    12 team Full Dynasty w cap. 13F, 7D, 2G, 5B.
    G 4.25, A 2.75, PPP 1.5, SHP 3, Hits 0.4, Blocks 0.5, PIM 0.25, DFP 1
    W 5 OTL 1 SO 6 SV 0.25 L-1 GS 1

    F:Stamkos, C Stew, R Johansen, B Dubinsky, Max Pac, Umberger, B Ryan, D Backes, T Ruutu, Lucic, Ott, MSL, Heatley, C Kunitz, J Benn, L Adam

    D: C Fowler, Kronwall, A Goligoski, JM Liles, M Giordano, K Letang, N Nikitin, R Josi

    G: J Quick, A Niemi, C Anderson, Rinne


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Team A has the following players: 10,10,10,10,10...2,2,2,1
    That's 37 points of value.

    Team B has the following players: 5, 5, 5, 5, 5...10,10,1,1
    That's 37 points of value
    gotta check your math big guy.

    i would gladly take backes over eberle in multi-cat leagues for the very reason that you pointed out. the categories that eberle wins in will be close, but the categories that backes wins in, he blows eberle out of the water. he is also a bigger shooter than eberle, so i see the category breakdown as 5-5, though i'm not really sure that is even that important in the big scheme of it. backes is just a better multi-cat contributer and he gives you team a better chance to win more categories.

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