Ideal Stat Categories: Players vs Goalies

[hockeyrobot]

So this is for my league in which a lot of you kindly voted on how we would designate a trophy a month or so ago..the multi keeper league with MLB, NFL, NHL.

We met tonight and the biggest debate we are down to is on stat categories. Here are the basics.....

How do we weigh the number of categories for goalies vs players....options are 6vs4, 5vs5 or 6vs5

For forwards, guaranteed are G, A, PPP, SOG, PIM/Hits
**ongoing debate on PIM or Hits

For goalies, guaranteed are W, GAA, SV%, SV
**options for a 5th cat are Losses or SO

Im sure this has been debated before but we literally spent 3 hours debating it tonight so I thought id throw our scenario out to you.

[blayze]

This is purely subjective... depends on roster slot paramters (how many skaters/goalies on each team) and which positions you want to put emphasis on.

In all 3 scenarios you mentioned (6v4, 5v5, 6v5), goalies will be extremely valuable because they will represent at least 40% of the total scoring categories meanwhile there are much fewer goalies to draft than there are skaters. For example, standard Yahoo is 6v4 I believe, and anyone who knows what they're doing in Yahoo knows goalies are KING.

If you're going for balanced positions (ie: skaters are worth as much as goalies), I generally like to see a 70/30 - 65/35 split.

With respect to scoring categories, the answer is also subjective. Do you want to design the scoring in such a way that it's easy to cheer for your guys and your teams when they score, or do you want to appeal to the statistical geeks who like to analyze and crunch numbers? For me personally, I like to sit back, watch a game and cheer when my guys score... it feels unnatural and takes away from my enjoyment when I have to cheer for things like Hits, PIM and +/-, so that's why I mostly play in points-only leagues.

[hockeyrobot]

For me personally, I like to sit back, watch a game and cheer when my guys score... it feels unnatural and takes away from my enjoyment when I have to cheer for things like Hits, PIM and +/-, so that's why I mostly play in points-only leagues.

I agree with you 100% blayze, but that just brings the question of can you run a H2H league with points only?

[blayze]

I agree with you 100% blayze, but that just brings the question of can you run a H2H league with points only?

Why the hell not? My large cash pools are all H2H points-only.

There is no reason to complicate things just for the sake of complicating things...

[hockeyrobot]

Why the hell not? My large cash pools are all H2H points-only.

There is no reason to complicate things just for the sake of complicating things...

Man i wish you were at our "meeting" tonight. It felt like debate class in high school.

But really in a points only H2H....what do you use? Especially so as to not overvalue goalies. How do you get enough offensive cats to make that not happen?

[blayze]

Man i wish you were at our "meeting" tonight. It felt like debate class in high school.

But really in a points only H2H....what do you use? Especially so as to not overvalue goalies. How do you get enough offensive cats to make that not happen?

We play forward g/a = 1 point, defense g = 2 points, win = 2 points, SO = 1 extra point.

That will give you decent balance between the relative values of forward/defense/goalie.

In that format, the top 3 skaters will be the best (as they are in any format), but then after that, the top 3-5 goalies should be competitive with skaters 4-15 from a points perspective by the end of the season. Even with the bonus to d-goals, defensemen are usually lower priority... there's the one standout guy each year (ie: karlsson/green) who will hang with the top 5, but the rest generally lag behind the top forwards/goalies.

[DerekReese]

Personally I would try to go with this scenerio:
For skaters I would have these cats G, A, PPP, SOG, PIM, Hits
For Goalies I would have these cats W, GAA, SV%
I like the 6/3 split as compared to the 6/4 split. You dont want your goalies having too much power.

[gainerama]

Agree with the 33% weighting for goalies thus they are still important but not overbearing. I would add extra forward scoring cats or assign a points weighting to each cat.

[dyzfunctioned]

I also go for the 66/33 split. So 6/3, 8/4, 10/5, etc.

[horrorfan]

I think the 2/3 to 1/3 is a good benchmark as well. As for the type and number of categories, that depends on how much value you want to give certain players.

In a H2H league, for goalies I feel that W,GAA,SV and SV% are the most ideal categories. It gives you two counting stats and two ratio stats, ensuring that (even with a minimum requirement) you start your goalies or you risk forfeiting two of them. It gives the right balance between regularly playing them and strategic matchups. I'm not a fan of shutouts as they are random on a weekly basis and don't like that one could win you a category. Some like that randomness and potential excitment of a late week shutout, but not me. As for losses, I am totally against that category being added. I find little value in adding a category that rewards a manager to sit their goalies. Yes, I understand the reasoning is to make strategic starts, but ratios do enough for that and isn't the main idea to play our goalies than to bench them?

If you go with four goalie categories, then I think you need around eight skater categories to keep the balance right (seven at a minimum). So, right now you have G,A,PPP,SOG,PIM/Hits (5 or 6). Are you omitting plus/minus on purpose due to the general feeling by many that it's random and more team dependent? If so, then you can keep it out, add both PIM and Hits, and potentially add these two more: FOW and BLK. FOW gives more value to centres, and arguably evening out their value with wingers who tend to have less depth. Though with Yahoo's eligibility (if you're using them), plenty of wingers take faceoffs as well. With blocks, you are obviously adding more value to defensemen to help that balance as well.

So, in summary, this would result in the following categories:

G,A,PIM,PPP,SOG,Hits,FOW,Blks
W,GAA,SV,SV%

That being said, having an 8x4 ratio is good but do you and your league mates enjoy smack talk? Because having the total number of categories an even number might give you more ties each week and lessen the opportunity to trash talk your opponent. This could be a minor issue, but it certainly has its place. Also come playoff time you might end up with more tiebreakers and it's best to avoid them. Obviously still possible if an odd number but might be less likely. So, if you agree with having an odd number, do you remove or add one? Some options there but I'll leave you to digest this and let us know what you think.