Starting your goalies against eachother

[soconfused]

Is it logical?

I can understand why you'd do it if you needed a guaranteed W to lock the cat on Sunday... but throughout the week?

You are increasing your risk of GA without the benefit of the W for one of the two goalies.

The GM im playing this week in my h2h league has done that twice this week...

[blayze]

There's a time and place for everything.

If I had Lundy and Rinne, I would start them against each other all day.

More often than not though, I personally would rather go for 2 W's than 1 guaranteed W.

[ericdaoust]

In your league there are three peripheral categories independent of wins and shutouts. You can pin your goalies against each other to boost those categories while being guaranteed a win.

I always believe in using the best goalie(s) available at all times unless you're playing defensive, in which case you should not dress anyone.

[bondon]

I dunno if it's logical but I do it....then again I'm not a very logical person

More often than not the reason why I'm doing it is to simply guarantee a W (doesn't matter if it's Sunday or Monday, a W is a W), and also to avoid me throwing myself in front of a bus if I pick one guy and the other guy pitches a shutout.

[ericdaoust]

I dunno if it's logical but I do it....then again I'm not a very logical person

More often than not the reason why I'm doing it is to simply guarantee a W (doesn't matter if it's Sunday or Monday, a W is a W), and also to avoid me throwing myself in front of a bus if I pick one guy and the other guy pitches a shutout.

It's also extremely helpful for total saves and if the two goalies are very good then the odds for a 2-1 finish are quite high.

[bondon]

It's also extremely helpful for total saves and if the two goalies are very good then the odds for a 2-1 finish are quite high.

Oh yeah for sure. With total saves I'd start pretty much anyone not named Mason against each other.

[Skin Blues]

Should be a non-factor. Assess the probable gain from starting each goalie and go with the best ones. Exceptions are if you're on the last day of a matchup and you NEED two wins in order to stay alive, in which case you shouldn't start two goalies that are going against each other because you're guaranteed to lose.

Say you have 3 goalies going. Two facing each other are a coin-flip for who will win, and the other goalie has a 40% chance. Go with the two 50% goalies, all else being equal. Maximize the expected win total, not the maximum possible win total. There are also other categories besides wins. I've been a roto player my whole life until this year though and I've found H2H players have a lot of weird beliefs that aren't founded in reality, ie: avoid streaky players. It's like sitting beside a guy at a blackjack table that complains I drew a card that would have made the dealer bust.

[wendelclark17]

I usually start them both and hope its not a game of pond hockey. Nothing worse than only starting one and picking the wrong guy.

[metaldude26]

I am not really a fan of this. I prefer to reserve this tactic for only when I am desperate. It is kind of like bringing toys into the bedroom. When done right you definitely maximize your pleasure but you also run the risk of getting ****ed in the ass.

[LawMan]

Should be a non-factor. Assess the probable gain from starting each goalie and go with the best ones. Exceptions are if you're on the last day of a matchup and you NEED two wins in order to stay alive, in which case you shouldn't start two goalies that are going against each other because you're guaranteed to lose.

Say you have 3 goalies going. Two facing each other are a coin-flip for who will win, and the other goalie has a 40% chance. Go with the two 50% goalies, all else being equal. Maximize the expected win total, not the maximum possible win total. There are also other categories besides wins. I've been a roto player my whole life until this year though and I've found H2H players have a lot of weird beliefs that aren't founded in reality, ie: avoid streaky players. It's like sitting beside a guy at a blackjack table that complains I drew a card that would have made the dealer bust.

Nailed it. Should be a total non-factor unless you need the 2 wins.

[soconfused]

Should be a non-factor. Assess the probable gain from starting each goalie and go with the best ones. Exceptions are if you're on the last day of a matchup and you NEED two wins in order to stay alive, in which case you shouldn't start two goalies that are going against each other because you're guaranteed to lose.

Say you have 3 goalies going. Two facing each other are a coin-flip for who will win, and the other goalie has a 40% chance. Go with the two 50% goalies, all else being equal. Maximize the expected win total, not the maximum possible win total. There are also other categories besides wins. I've been a roto player my whole life until this year though and I've found H2H players have a lot of weird beliefs that aren't founded in reality, ie: avoid streaky players. It's like sitting beside a guy at a blackjack table that complains I drew a card that would have made the dealer bust.

(You would be complaining if i was playing anchor - drunk anchor - and split 9's on a dealer 6, but that besides the point.)

you're right, i guess i never thought of it that way...following your bj analogy - the cats are separate hands, and as such, are separate statistcal entities, completely independent from each other. you are trying to win every hand (cat) in order to win more money (advantage in each cat), so you play your cards (goalies) accordingly..huh...

i get it. i mistakenly thought it was more like even money, which is a sucker bet, because you were going for the guarantee win instead of swinging for the fence...

grazie.

i was just a little flummoxed because the GM played niemi against price a couple days ago..then played niemi against garon yesterday..i dont know why he played garon when he also had kipper against dallas (who i thought would be better statistically- and a better chance at the win).

[Maaaasquito]

Many Dobberities have hit this on the head, it depends on the situation... If you look at all of the goalies with more than 10 wins, this is their win%

Howard 72.7
Rinne 59.6
Fleury 60.4
Lundy 64.3
Anderson 50
Kipper 52
Quick 49
Thomas 63.2
Smith 53.3
Luongo 60
Vokoun 56.1
Niemi 53.5
Price 43.1
Lehtonen 55.3
Hiller 40.4
Pavelec 42.9
Ward 42
Brodeur 52.6
Bryz 51.3
Elliott 70.4
Crawford 47.5
Garon 42.5
Halak 50
Miller 41
Gustavsson 51.6
Theodore 44.1
Giggy 50
Nabby 46.7
Backstrom 38.9
Varly 42.4
Hedberg 56.5
Schneider 57.1
Khabibulin 36.4
Bobrovsky 52.2
Rask 52.4
Emery 47.8
Reimer 45.8
Biron 66.7
Sanford 34.5
Clemmensen 45.5
Dubnyk 37

average = 50.7

So I mean if you have a situation where you own Howard, Lundy and Dubnyk... Howard faces Dubnyk and Lundy faces Jackets... Well the smart choice is go Howard and Lundy cause you have a strong chance of picking up 2 wins...

If you have a situation where you own Crawford, Anderson and Quick... If Crawford and Anderson face off against each other and Quick faces Sharks...

Well you're better off starting both Crawford and Anderson, that way you're guaranteed a win. Instead of having to make a 50/50 situation between Crawford or Anderson then banking on Quick to win against the Sharks... You could end up missing the 50/50, and then having Quick lose as well, so you get nothing...

[LawMan]

Many Dobberities have hit this on the head, it depends on the situation... If you look at all of the goalies with more than 10 wins, this is their win%

Howard 72.7
Rinne 59.6
Fleury 60.4
Lundy 64.3
Anderson 50
Kipper 52
Quick 49
Thomas 63.2
Smith 53.3
Luongo 60
Vokoun 56.1
Niemi 53.5
Price 43.1
Lehtonen 55.3
Hiller 40.4
Pavelec 42.9
Ward 42
Brodeur 52.6
Bryz 51.3
Elliott 70.4
Crawford 47.5
Garon 42.5
Halak 50
Miller 41
Gustavsson 51.6
Theodore 44.1
Giggy 50
Nabby 46.7
Backstrom 38.9
Varly 42.4
Hedberg 56.5
Schneider 57.1
Khabibulin 36.4
Bobrovsky 52.2
Rask 52.4
Emery 47.8
Reimer 45.8
Biron 66.7
Sanford 34.5
Clemmensen 45.5
Dubnyk 37

average = 50.7

So I mean if you have a situation where you own Howard, Lundy and Dubnyk... Howard faces Dubnyk and Lundy faces Jackets... Well the smart choice is go Howard and Lundy cause you have a strong chance of picking up 2 wins...

If you have a situation where you own Crawford, Anderson and Quick... If Crawford and Anderson face off against each other and Quick faces Sharks...

Well you're better off starting both Crawford and Anderson, that way you're guaranteed a win. Instead of having to make a 50/50 situation between Crawford or Anderson then banking on Quick to win against the Sharks... You could end up missing the 50/50, and then having Quick lose as well, so you get nothing...

But this only deals with wins which is 1 of 6 categories for the OP. When deciding who to start you're better off going with whatever 2 goalies will have the best peripherals to try and win the 4 peripheral categories, if that leads you to starting to goalies against each other so be it.

[tgraveline]

I don't know. I'm with some people who say we just have to play it by ear, but generally it depends on the team, but I've done this when I'm really close to passing someone in a rotisserie and will do it then. I'd rather for sure get the one than none. The GAA and stuff sometimes doesn't work out, but over time that heals. Usually when I get greedy and go for the 2 I lose out on both.

[Maaaasquito]

But this only deals with wins which is 1 of 6 categories for the OP. When deciding who to start you're better off going with whatever 2 goalies will have the best peripherals to try and win the 4 peripheral categories, if that leads you to starting to goalies against each other so be it.

I thought it was just a general question whether it was a smart move to play your goalies H2H, I only looked at it from a wins perspective because you can't really analyze the situation with 5 other stats, it varies so much from game to game that it's near impossible to predict how many goals a goalie is going to allow on a game-per-game basis.

Plus most leagues probably only utilizes 4 stats, maybe 5 it's very rare that leagues would go into 6 or more for goalies...