[Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

[2014olympicgold]

Will someone please give Marner an offer sheet already! This is getting ridiculous.

possible he's received offer sheets, he just hasn't signed any

[rangersfury]

I think New Jersey just makes more sense than any other team.

Yeah, but with Taylor Hall on the roster that's four #1 overall picks they'd be giving up ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Auston'sWilly]

Where is the sandpaper coming from? The snarl? The foot soldiers and playoff warriors? They got rid of Kadri, who was their only real sandpaper guy.

Good riddance too. I am fine with trading away sandpaper if said paper chooses to dish out suspension-worthy cheap shots in consecutive 1st round matchups.
The notion of sandpaper being a championship requirement is way overblown, imho.

[Axeman33]

Good riddance too. I am fine with trading away sandpaper if said paper chooses to dish out suspension-worthy cheap shots in consecutive 1st round matchups.
The notion of sandpaper being a championship requirement is way overblown, imho.

The St Louis Blues and their seven roster players with 40+PIMs and their Stanley Cup say hello and wave to the Leafs and their one guy (Hyman) with 40+PIMs on their roster.

[lucafen4]

Muzzin should count...

Marner should take Labanc as a comparable and just sign. Then we can bring Jake the Snake back too.

[Auston'sWilly]

The St Louis Blues and their seven roster players with 40+PIMs and their Stanley Cup say hello and wave to the Leafs and their one guy (Hyman) with 40+PIMs on their roster.

Well, since we're quoting meaningless statistics, here's another one: The Blues ranked 24th out of 31 teams in the regular season in total PIM. Berube even made a point of bringing this up when he was mad about the playoff reffing.
So I have no idea what kind of correlation you're trying to make between PIM and the Blues' Cup win.

There is no (edit: significantly statistical) correlation there.

[Axeman33]

Well, since we're quoting meaningless statistics, here's another one: The Blues ranked 24th out of 31 teams in the regular season in total PIM. Berube even made a point of bringing this up when he was mad about the playoff reffing.
So I have no idea what kind of correlation you're trying to make between PIM and the Blues' Cup win.

There is no correlation there.

Where did the Leafs rank?

[Auston'sWilly]

Where did the Leafs rank?

They ranked 31st in PIM.
And they went out in the 1st round, just like Tampa who ranked 3rd.
But you don't see me writing things like "Good thing the Leafs didn't have more grit - they could have been knocked out in 4 games instead of 7."

[Axeman33]

I'm not saying the grittiest (is that a word?) team will win every year, but I'm saying you need a level of physicality if you want to compete in the playoffs and be successful. That's the point I was trying to make. I'm sorry if you dont agree with that but history tends to favor that philosophy.

[Auston'sWilly]

I'm not saying the grittiest (is that a word?) team will win every year, but I'm saying you need a level of physicality if you want to compete in the playoffs and be successful. That's the point I was trying to make. I'm sorry if you dont agree with that but history tends to favor that philosophy.

That's fair. I'm not saying "level of physicality" is unimportant. But a team can be physical without taking penalties. Higher PIM correlates to improving the other team's chances of scoring more than it correlates to grit.
And I'm not saying grit is unimportant either, but I do believe it's overblown. The Blues won on terrific goaltending and great coaching. Their grit narrative is completely overblown. I think even Dobber said something like this in one of his ramblings.

[lucafen4]

Aren't PIM seen as a negative? I mean often it results in Power Plays for the other team.
If they're all hooking, tripping, obstuction, delay of game calls - it says nothing about Grit or truculence or anything beyond undisciplined.

If players have 40-50 PIM... often the majority would be minors... would they not?
PIM is not a measure of toughness or grit or anything.
If we broke it down to measure which team led in roughing + fighting penalties... perhaps there's an argument that could be made.

Being the least penalized team in the NHL does lead one to the conclusion - they had the least amount of Penalties to Kill in the NHL. That would be a positive -avoiding opposition man advantage situations.

When your stars - Matthews, Tavares, Nylander... lesser extent Marner don't kill penalties - it's in your best interest to keep them on the ice.
Sounds like they did this.

[rataylor22]

Aren't PIM seen as a negative? I mean often it results in Power Plays for the other team.
If they're all hooking, tripping, obstuction, delay of game calls - it says nothing about Grit or truculence or anything beyond undisciplined.

If players have 40-50 PIM... often the majority would be minors... would they not?
PIM is not a measure of toughness or grit or anything.
If we broke it down to measure which team led in roughing + fighting penalties... perhaps there's an argument that could be made.

Being the least penalized team in the NHL does lead one to the conclusion - they had the least amount of Penalties to Kill in the NHL. That would be a positive -avoiding opposition man advantage situations.

When your stars - Matthews, Tavares, Nylander... lesser extent Marner don't kill penalties - it's in your best interest to keep them on the ice. 3/267
Sounds like they did this.

I'm not sure where AW got his numbers from, but from NHL.com I have the Leafs being 30th in # of times shorthanded at 204 (4 ahead of Columbus) which on the surface is good. You have lots of good players, they don't kill penalties, less times shorthanded means more ice time for your best players. Unfortunately, being second last in times shorthanded also means the Leafs were dead last in PP opportunities at 211, because the NHL doesn't actually call the rules, they just call it even. Less PP opportunities means less prime scoring chances for your best players, which means they have to work harder at 5v5.

By comparison, Tampa Bay took the third most penalties at 267, which means they had the luxury of getting the 4th most PP opportunities at 269. That resulted in 74 PPG compared to Toronto's 46. Factoring in PPGF, SHGA, PPGA, SHGF Tampa ended up +43 while Toronto ended up +1. Part of that has to do with Tampa having a better PP and a better PK, but part of that has to do with just getting more opportunities.

TL;DR if you have a good PP taking penalties is good because it also means you'll get more PP opportunities.

[Auston'sWilly]

I got my numbers from NHL.com too.
PIM, penalties in minutes: the Leafs were 31st at 503, according to NHL.com.

[Godin]

possible he's received offer sheets, he just hasn't signed any

As they say, shit or get off the pot.

I'm sure Aho signed his offer from Montreal knowing that Carolina was going to match and he would stay there like he wanted to. Could Marner be worried that Toronto won't match and he would prefer to not go to the teams that he has received the offers from? Seems like this may be the case. If it's Montreal or the Islanders, I don't think his chances of winning a Stanley Cup would be anywhere near as good as they would be in Toronto. If it's New Jersey, then that's the one he should probably sign as they are looking the closest to being a contender of the three.

[lucafen4]

29 pages of fake news and counting....