Tolvanen had like 11 points in his last 15 KHL games.
He had 4 in the previous 15 games before that.
And about 20 in his previous 15 before that
rough numbers....but close enough.
I can't promise I'll try but I'll try to try.
I can't promise I'll try but I'll try to try.
15 points in 30 games is below average? That would still be 6th on the all-time list among U19 players in the KHL, and his points-per-game average would still be in the same range with Tarasenko and Kaprizov. That's below average? Wow, you have some high standards! Besides, I wasn't talking about his numbers, I was talking about how he played. An 18-year-old playing in the 2nd best league in the world and he goes through a scoring slump? Big deal. He bounced back from it which was the most important thing.
Comparing their point totals is 100% valid, they're both born in the same year. Even if you use exact age to balance the age difference, all the numbers still favor Tolvanen in a big way. If you're going to use numbers to prove your point, at least use them correctly. Zadina's point totals are not great, they never have been. His point totals aren't even Top 10 in his draft class. But I don't make decisions based on points, and I think Zadina is better than what his numbers suggest. I'm just saying - IF you're going to use numbers, there's nothing there to suggest Zadina is better than Tolvanen. Let's use a 3rd party software to see what I mean. NHL Rank King's PNHLe numbers (which use exact age): Eeli Tolvanen 65, Filip Zadina 50. That's a huge difference between them.
The argument has gotten more subjective with every post, despite seeking to do the opposite. Just reading it as a third party, it’s clear these numbers are being thrown out there, out of context, in an attempt to give credence to a subjective opinion.
Maybe Zadina is better, maybe Tolvanen is better, it’s still TBD. What is clear though is that a Tolvanen wins any display of statistics hands down. What Tolvanen did in the KHL as a rookie is likely more impressive than what Elias Pettersson has done in the SHL. As far as I’m concerned at least.
It’s funny, a lot of people are starting to say Tolvanen is all hype or not nearly as good as the hype suggests. Yet often when other players like Svechnikov or Zadina are discussed, it’s as if they’re in a hype-less vacuum, where every claim about them is simply destiny instead of the propagandized conjecture that clearly surrounds Tolvanen.
18 Team H2H Dynasty 9x4 cat. Roster 30 + 2 NA, 4 DL. 4C,4LW,4RW,6D,1G,11BN
Scoring cats are G, A, +\-, PIM, PPP, SHP, FW, HIT, BLK
W, GAA, SV%, SHO.
C: Crosby, Horvat, , E. Lindholm (RW), Aho, W. Johnston (RW), Bjugstad,
LW: Marchand, J. Benn, E. Kane, Fiala, Barbashev (C), Schwartz (C), Namestikov (C)
RW: M. Tkachuk (LW), JT Miller (C), Batherson, Hyman (LW), Frederic (C), Palmieri
D: J. Carlson, Josi, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Seider, Gudas, Ekman-Larsson,
G: Vasilievkiy, Shesterkin, Husso
NA: Mukhamadullin (D), I. Rosen (RW), D. .Levi (G)
LTIR: Landeskog (LW), Dach (C)
You're absolutely right that either one could end up being better. There really is no right or wrong answer with elite prospects like them - it's just personal preference. I just wanted to correct the false allegation that Zadina's numbers are somehow better than Tolvanen's. But as said earlier, stats and numbers are a helpful tool but not decisive by any means.
I like Zadina a lot, and I have nothing bad to say about him. A great prospect, and I've heard nothing but good things about his character as well. His numbers are not at elite level but I think he's a better player than his numbers suggest. Casey Mittelstadt is a similar case - great player with numbers that don't suggest he's elite. There's no reason to be badmouthing Zadina just because I like Tolvanen a tad more.
It comes down to personal preference.. We all know who you guys like better.. In 5 years we can come back to this thread and point fingers.. HaHa..
Zorro says "vote for Dobber"
Angus is my best friend at dobberhockey..
just moved an early 2nd rounder for Eeli...hes certainly worth that i hope
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24 man roster (+3 IR) - Keep 20 - Daily settings
Start 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 5D, 2G, 1UTIL
G,A,PTS, +/-, PIM, PPA, PPG, D PTS - W, SV, SV%
C- Zegras, Rossi, Carlsson, Fantilli, Norris
RW- Batherson, Michkov, Quinn, Perfetti(C,LW), Foerster, Kakko
LW- BTkachuk, Stutzle(C), McTavish(C), Benson
D- Mintyukov, Sanderson, LHughes, Clarke, Drysdale, Korchinski
G- Wolf, Askarov, Wallstedt
IR-
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I don't think I claimed that or at least I didn't meant to claim it. I pointed out that the sample size of Tolvanen's great play is not the whole KHL season but rather mostly the first two months. Yes, he got out of his mid season slump towards the end but never was able to reproduce his early season success.
And yes, there is more than numbers when evaluating prospects.
I can't promise I'll try but I'll try to try.
Curious what people think the best case scenario player comparison would be for Tolvanen. Like if he reached his top potential, what kind of player are we looking at? If forced to choose. I know player comparisons are tough and not always that accurate. But none the less, can be helpful in prospecting players future.
I have thought the best case scenario for Tolvanen would be similar to Tarasenko. All though, I'm not sure if that comparison comes from their actual play, or just because they both come from the KHL after succeeding there.
Does Tolvanen have any 2 way game? Could he end up more like Jeff Skinner? That would be unfortunate IMO. At least for fantasy purposes. I'm hoping, Skinner is on the lower end of what Tolvanen could become if he succeeds but doesn't flourish.
I've read through this thread. Didn't really see much about the non offensive aspects of Tolvanen's game. If he's physical at all, perhaps leading to HIT and PIM? Also, didn't see many direct player comparisons outside of loose comparisons with other youngsters like Boeser or Kyle Connor perhaps.
18 Team H2H Dynasty 9x4 cat. Roster 30 + 2 NA, 4 DL. 4C,4LW,4RW,6D,1G,11BN
Scoring cats are G, A, +\-, PIM, PPP, SHP, FW, HIT, BLK
W, GAA, SV%, SHO.
C: Crosby, Horvat, , E. Lindholm (RW), Aho, W. Johnston (RW), Bjugstad,
LW: Marchand, J. Benn, E. Kane, Fiala, Barbashev (C), Schwartz (C), Namestikov (C)
RW: M. Tkachuk (LW), JT Miller (C), Batherson, Hyman (LW), Frederic (C), Palmieri
D: J. Carlson, Josi, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Seider, Gudas, Ekman-Larsson,
G: Vasilievkiy, Shesterkin, Husso
NA: Mukhamadullin (D), I. Rosen (RW), D. .Levi (G)
LTIR: Landeskog (LW), Dach (C)
Filip Forsberg with a better shot.