Typical Philly fan

[The Comish]

WildHendy wrote:

I too enjoy freedom of speech and dont pretend to be an expert on european culture,However,I do know if not for us behind the times North Americans saving your asses in WW2,you\'d be speaking German and only when you were told too....cheers. We\'re good for somthing,no?

He\'s Dutch, they all speak German anyway!! I spent four years on the Dutch/German border(and loved every minute of it, especially on the Dutch side!).

Just don\'t get caught on the wrong side of a German/Dutch football match, you\'re likely to get hurt!:woohoo:

[Dutch]

you got that right lol. I hate germany with a passion

and if you EVER say that dutch people speak german again you and I will have to take it outside

Glad you liked my country

[big_dl]

Dutch you need to define your terms.

1. \"NA is 20 years behind Europe\" (this is actually a paraphrase, as the following \'Dutch\' points will also be)
In what sense is this true? France just had race riots, whereas the US had its riots approximately 40 years ago. The US is significantly more productive than any country in Europe. With the exception of Eastern Europe and the UK most Europeans were facing stagnating economies even before this recession we\'ve just entered. Furthermore, going back to the American Revolution, American\'s embraced democracy well before any European country did. With the exception of possibly its banking system, and arguably some social aspects, North America has led the world for the last 60 years in almost any objective standard.

The only thing North America is behind Europe in is population density, and recorded history. If you include Mexico is North America, as most do, North America was a head of Europe going back to the Mayans and Incans (I know, one of them was in Peru).

Fact: Mexico is included in North America and is just over 100 million people thus North America is 430 million. Furthermore, pertaining to the argument above NAFTA, which accomplishes much the same things as the EU does economically was realized before the EU became a real operating body.

2. \"North American sports television sucks\"
Should North American television coverage be based solely around your likes and dislikes? If I go to Europe how easy will it be for me to find extensive coverage of Major League Baseball games, NFL games, or NHL games? TV is geared towards serving the general preferences of the population of the region it serves. Not as it would seem you propose the coverage of sports Dutch wants to watch. Furthermore, in most satellite packages you can find sports channels that feature sports not as readily covered on mainstream North American television. Foxsportsworld for instance covers a ton of rugby.

3. \"Hooliganism, like gang violence doesnt effect people if they are not involved in it\"
So by this reasoning no innocent bystander has ever been hurt in an instance of gang violence or hooliganism. You also fail to consider the costs to society at large of the ramifications of gang violence. The fact of the matter is that bystanders do get hurt without being involved. Violence spills over into other areas, even if its contained pretty well within the stands. Riots, are necessarily events which are not controlled and thus do not take into consideration who is actively involved in them.

[Dutch]

big_dl

I would invite you to purchase a holiday to europe, and go see the differences

if you think America is leading the world then all I will do is LAUGH

George Bush... enough said

[big_dl]

Wow that\'s a dangerous game, playing judge a continent by its poorest example of a leader. Can I judge Europe by the poor governance of Sylvio Berlusconi? Or can I go back in time and cherry my favourite worst leader? Shall we compare the worst North American leaders to the worst European leaders?

Where does the fact that Europe has routinely been home to the worst genocides figure into this. Even as recent as the crisis in the Balkans between the Serbs and the Croats.

When was the last time a European country had to bail out a North American country?

Even when the US starts a world wide recession the European countries get hit hardest because their economies aren\'t as developed.

Maybe if you could show me one way that Europe was ahead of North America I\'d find your argument easier to buy. Blanket statements are so much fun until someone asks what\'s under the blanket (feel free to use that, I just made it up now).

[The Comish]

I\'ve spent six of the last 18 years or so living in Europe. Based on my experiences, Europe is the one that\'s 20 years behind, but I mean that in a good/innocent way. In most Western European countries I\'ve lived in/visited, violent crime feels almost non-existent. By that I mean it\'s there for sure, but it\'s not sensationalized by the media, so it just FEELS safer.

I found the sports that were televised in Europe to be extremely boring to ME - so maybe the opposite applies for Dutch being in NA (I can\'t remember, but I think you are now living here?). For someone who was brought up watching hockey and football, ski-jumping and cross-country skiing just can\'t compare. I did however enjoy many futball matches.

Listening to the radio was painful in both Germany and Norway; talk about being 20 years behind!!:lol:

It\'s difficult to lump all European countries as one and saying the US and Canada are one in the same. They\'re not. Most Canadians I know don\'t like being lumped in as \"North Americans\", we\'re Candian for Christ\'s sake.

When I was in the Netherlands and a dutch person would say I was American or that being Canadian was essentially the same thing, I would make the same comparison between Germany (USA) and the Netherlands (Canada). They never called me an American again.

[Dutch]

big_dl

That George Bush is your leader of the country is \"your\" own fault, as you (americans) are the ones who elected him...

And, although the war in Afghanistan and Iraq is not on American soil, europeans are helping u.s. (god knows why...) The reason this war started is because of 9/11 so I, personally, see this as europeans helping the states out in this war against whatever the war is about (I don\'t even think bush himself knows anymore)

If you think the european economy is less developed than north america you are very wrong my friend. Here in NA they are still using cheques for christ sakes... talk about outdated lol


Comish, in regards to your comment about crime... I do believe that europe (at least netherlands) is less involved in violent crime. I took murders as an example, and found the following stats

homicides in canada for 2007: 594
homicides in netherlands for 2007: 164

Now canada has about twice the population over holland, so that\'s almost 270 murders more in 2007 (if you\'re looking per capita)

Also, it\'s very true about the media being a big factor. When I used to watch the news on tv it was always about war, or worldwide events, but when I watch news here in Canada the majority of news is \"local\" rather than worldwide. So I do think that the media has a role in this

I have to agree as well with your comment about ski jumping and cross country skiing. But there\'s a lot of futball (soccer), tennis, cycling (tour de france etc.) stuff like that on tv. My suggestion (more like hope lol) for sports television here, is that they would put a more variety of sports on tv. For example, instead of playing the sportscenter repeat for 6 times in a row, they could use 5 times (5 repeats) for other sports coverage.

And for europeans it\'s really hard to distinguish english accents (other than british) and would automatically think anyone who doesn\'t sound british is american. Reason for this I think is because \"America\" is \"more\" known than Canada. Not sure if that\'s the reason but that\'s what I assume

[big_dl]

That\'s an interesting point about Bush, and how that\'s the fault of Americans but you claimed that Bush being President of the US is a knock against North America as a whole. That being your claim it is entirely relevant that we only compare poor leaders regardless of what country elected them.

Maybe you can explain to me which European countries are involved in helping in Iraq and Afghanistan, other than Great Britain. France and Germany and most European countries didnt have the balls to do anything. Spain went for 5 minutes and pulled out, premature evacuation. If you actually look at the troops in actuality the only countries providing any real significant support are Great Britain in Iraq, but they primarily serve in calmer areas, and Canada in Afghanistan. Taking pot shots from sideline a la France Germany isn\'t actually support. But, more to the point, the example of Iraq/Afghanistan doesnt provide an example of an European country bailing out a North American country on North American soil.

Dutch, I will have to concede your point about European economies being more advanced as the use of cheques is clearly how the maturity of an economy is measured. It\'s not done based on banking systems, Canada\'s was rated the highest in the world, stock markets or anything like that. Clearly whether the public uses cheques or debit/credit cards is the primary measure.

Dutch, it\'s interesting to note that your really havent answered any of my points. Including my point about sports television in North America, which you avoided entirely.

P.S. - I\'m Canadian. I used American examples to serve a point. But we\'re all the same right much like Germans and the Dutch are the same.

[mister_mcgoo]

how the hell did this devolve into a political discussion, I cant get away from politics, even on my fantasy hockey forum :unsure:

homicides in canada for 2007: 594
homicides in netherlands for 2007: 164

those are wussy numbers, no one knows how to kill people like Americans:

homicides is U.S. in 2007: 16,929
course they have 9 times the population of Canada but still, yikes...best city to get killed in? Hockeytown, USA

Oh and I want ben back too, so ben listen up you ****ing ****y ****er **** prick ******* piece of shit, yeah! Take That!

[Atomic Wedgy]

You forgot the smiley face so he would know you were taking the piss!