Allen and Nichushkin for Gibson (or Vasilevski) and Yakupov

[Chicleteur]

Guys,

I have hard time figuring out this offer. It's for a big and deep league (see the details and my sig).

I would be giving Allen and Nichushkin for Gibson (it could also be Vasilevski) and Yakupov.

The thing is the GM who's offering me that deal is the GM with Elliott and he's been trying to get Allen since this offseason. I don't mind trading Allen, but I've always told that I wanted one of Gibson or Vasilevski in return and I would need something else. Is Yakupov (in exchange of Nichushkin) is enough as a "something else"? I know Yakupov is more a "PTS" guy and Nichushkin could be more a multi-cat guy. Yakupov is doing great with McDavid at the moment and could be seen as a sell high and Nichushkin is probably a sell low. But what if it's the reality?

Also, who do you prefer between Gibson and Vasilevski? Anaheim are not doing great at the moment and maybe they'll turn to Gibson. In TB, Bishop is probably more entranched as the starter, but something will happen there when they'll re-sign Stamkos and the Triplets.

All being said, I'm not in a hurry to move Allen, but what if he doesn't finally establish himself?

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!
Chic

[Axeman33]

First off, I like this deal for you. Yakupov finally seems to be working out since he's found McDavid. I think McLellan is happy with that setup and I can see that continuing. I am still not truly sold like many on Nichushkin.

As far as the goalies go, I prefer Vasilevsky but I don't really think you can go wrong with either young goalie coming back to you.

I'd take that deal. I think it can be a win-win for both sides.

[Chicleteur]

Thanks Axeman! Are you somehow worried about the health issue Vasilevski had?

Yes, like I said, I like when it's a win-win deal and that's why I don't mind giving the other GM the handcuff on STL if I get something good in return.

Anyone else?

[Axeman33]

As far as the injury goes, it's not something that seems worrisome at this stage, at least not that I have read (and I own him in a couple keepers myself so I have been following along).

[Chicleteur]

As far as the injury goes, it's not something that seems worrisome at this stage, at least not that I have read (and I own him in a couple keepers myself so I have been following along).

Thanks! I've read about it just a bit, but glad you're following this closely.

[Chicleteur]

Anyone else has any thoughts for me on this one?

[valec]

I'm with Axe, I like Vas and Yak. Allen may not be the future in STL.

[Referee3083]

On it's own, I like the deal. Yak has a good opportunity in front of him (which he's finally taking advantage of) and Nichu is being healthy scratched / playing in the bottom 6. But I'm concerned about what it does to your team in the short term. You become entirely dependent on Anderson (who's had shaky health). Stalock is not starting many games (Jones has done a nice job of taking the #1 gig). O'Connor has to jump Hammond before he's NHL relevant. And Anaheim's troubles are not a result of poor goaltending, so I think they're fine rolling either Andersen or 'Dubbie in net while letting Gibson bake a little longer in the AHL.

If you do the deal, Vasi is probably a better choice because he will get starts in Tampa this year as soon as he's back, he's very talented, Bishop has a wonky groin, and they are a strong team. But it's a risk, and barring an injury, Vasi is likely two years (this and next season) away from being a starter (assuming they trade Bishop next year before he's UFA because of cap issues, or they move Vasi). In the short term, especially if you're competing this year, you might regret bailing early on a cheap, potentially full time starter this season in Allen, or worse, put yourself in a position where Stalock is the only non-injured goalie in the NHL on your roster.

[Chicleteur]

On it's own, I like the deal. Yak has a good opportunity in front of him (which he's finally taking advantage of) and Nichu is being healthy scratched / playing in the bottom 6. But I'm concerned about what it does to your team in the short term. You become entirely dependent on Anderson (who's had shaky health). Stalock is not starting many games (Jones has done a nice job of taking the #1 gig). O'Connor has to jump Hammond before he's NHL relevant. And Anaheim's troubles are not a result of poor goaltending, so I think they're fine rolling either Andersen or 'Dubbie in net while letting Gibson bake a little longer in the AHL.

If you do the deal, Vasi is probably a better choice because he will get starts in Tampa this year as soon as he's back, he's very talented, Bishop has a wonky groin, and they are a strong team. But it's a risk, and barring an injury, Vasi is likely two years (this and next season) away from being a starter (assuming they trade Bishop next year before he's UFA because of cap issues, or they move Vasi). In the short term, especially if you're competing this year, you might regret bailing early on a cheap, potentially full time starter this season in Allen, or worse, put yourself in a position where Stalock is the only non-injured goalie in the NHL on your roster.

Yeah, that's exactly part of my dilemma. In a vaccum, I like this deal a lot (especially for the future), but you're right, it could leave me with no healthy goalies on my roster this year and even next year there's a risk.

I guess part of the reason why I would like to make this deal is to capitalize on the fact that Elliott's GM want's to handcuff STL and reduce the risk that down the road Allen has no value because he's not the solution there...

[LawMan]

On it's own, I like the deal. Yak has a good opportunity in front of him (which he's finally taking advantage of) and Nichu is being healthy scratched / playing in the bottom 6. But I'm concerned about what it does to your team in the short term. You become entirely dependent on Anderson (who's had shaky health). Stalock is not starting many games (Jones has done a nice job of taking the #1 gig). O'Connor has to jump Hammond before he's NHL relevant. And Anaheim's troubles are not a result of poor goaltending, so I think they're fine rolling either Andersen or 'Dubbie in net while letting Gibson bake a little longer in the AHL.

If you do the deal, Vasi is probably a better choice because he will get starts in Tampa this year as soon as he's back, he's very talented, Bishop has a wonky groin, and they are a strong team. But it's a risk, and barring an injury, Vasi is likely two years (this and next season) away from being a starter (assuming they trade Bishop next year before he's UFA because of cap issues, or they move Vasi). In the short term, especially if you're competing this year, you might regret bailing early on a cheap, potentially full time starter this season in Allen, or worse, put yourself in a position where Stalock is the only non-injured goalie in the NHL on your roster.

I agree with all of this.

First, I like Yakupov over Nisch. Yakupov finally looks to be coming into his own, and has been the best playing partner for McDavid so far.

Long-term I prefer either of Gibson/Vasi over Allen. I am not high on Allen at all really. For 3 years now we've been told that Allen is going to take over and play in front of the incredible Blues system and put up great numbers and every year he falters while Elliott the "inferior" goalie put up better numbers. The Blues are win now and they don't have time to keep throwing Allen rope to try and prove he can do what Elliott is already doing. Gibson and Vasi are both studs who have looked better in their limited action. As correctly pointed out by Referee3083 the only real hit to your team is short-term goaltending. Over the next 2 seasons you probably end up with fewer starts by giving up Allen, long-term I think it's worth it.

[Chicleteur]

Thanks LawMan!

Goalies are hard to get in a 24 teams league, but still it's easier now than it was when we were 30 teams. I could certainly find a backup or two to help me cover games here and there.

I guess the big question is short term vs long term. I always want to win and compete, but at the same time, I also look at the future.

[Referee3083]

I guess part of the reason why I would like to make this deal is to capitalize on the fact that Elliott's GM want's to handcuff STL and reduce the risk that down the road Allen has no value because he's not the solution there...

Yeah, I was thinking that same thing as I was typing my initial reply and makes a ton of sense. Maybe another way of looking at it is this. Forget the trade for a minute. If Anderson gets hurt, you're still in a tough spot today with your current goalies. Your ability to start games would come down to whether or not Allen is playing. Hitchcock said he was going to name a full time starter in Nov. So all of this might boil down to what your gut says about Allen.

If you think Allen is not the guy they're going with this year, take the deal (you're not taking on a lot of incremental risk...you don't have a great plan B today for an Anderson injury or cold streak, Vasi is a great prospect to own and he will start some games this year). If you think they will roll with Allen as the starter, don't take the deal. St. Louis is a strong team (stronger than Ottawa IMHO) and the Anderson / Allen combo gives you solid goaltending in a very deep league.

[Chicleteur]

Yeah, I was thinking that same thing as I was typing my initial reply and makes a ton of sense. Maybe another way of looking at it is this. Forget the trade for a minute. If Anderson gets hurt, you're still in a tough spot today with your current goalies. Your ability to start games would come down to whether or not Allen is playing. Hitchcock said he was going to name a full time starter in Nov. So all of this might boil down to what your gut says about Allen.

If you think Allen is not the guy they're going with this year, take the deal (you're not taking on a lot of incremental risk...you don't have a great plan B today for an Anderson injury or cold streak, Vasi is a great prospect to own and he will start some games this year). If you think they will roll with Allen as the starter, don't take the deal. St. Louis is a strong team (stronger than Ottawa IMHO) and the Anderson / Allen combo gives you solid goaltending in a very deep league.

Yeah, these are times where I wish I had a crystal ball! Like Lawman is saying, St. Louis are in a win now mode and who's winning right now? Elliott and not Allen.

[fantasyhockeygeek]

I would try and get value to elsewhere on your roster other than Gibson or Vasilevski. Goaltending is incredibly volatile and situation dependent; you're better off just being active on the wire than paying for something like that.

Remember: Bishop was a waiver scrub a few years ago. Andersen? Out of nowhere. Holtby? An afterthought. Elliott? Castoff. Anderson? Florida's crappy backup. Dubnyk? Waiver fodder. Quick? Just a placeholder until Bernier is ready. Talbot? Meh backup nobody has ever heard of.


Those are big names today.

I totally agree with moving Nichushkin (never drank that koolaid that definitely got out of hand) and getting Yak. I'm fine with moving Allen, I just wouldn't be targeting a young goalie as part of the return, upgrade your roster elsewhere.

[Chicleteur]

Thanks again for your thoughts Paul.

I kind of agree with you about goalies, but in a league deep like this one, there isn't nothing much on the waiver. Sure we can certainly make deals, but another reason why I wanted a young goalie now was to get them before it's too late.

That's a tough one for sure... I guess I have to think about it further...