Minimum goalie starts rule - what do you think?

[MT319]

Bro I understand, whether he wants to do it or not is up to him, but as commissioner of the league if he feels the way it's functioning currently is detrimental to the league and wishes to change it, then it's perfectly legitimate that he does so based on what I stated above. I don't care if he wants to end up doing it or not that's his call...but he's asking whether or not he legitimately has the grounds to make such a change and like I stated above he absolutely does, I completely understand what you're saying but it doesn't change the fact that based on what was explained above he absolutely can change it on legitimate grounds should he see it necessary on his own end. If the people in his league can't handle that and want to quit like children then let them as it's likely inevitable anyway.

[2sticks1puck]

If the people in his league can't handle that and want to quit like children then let them as it's likely inevitable anyway.

I'm glad you're not my commish with that kind unbiased thinking! (you're not right?)
Sometimes, if a commissioner just changes rules wily nilly, the only option the other managers have is to quit. Just because someone is a commissioner, it doesn't give them automatic exemption from being 'childish'. Making a rule change midseason, with half of the league against it, is a serious issue.

[mister_mcgoo]

kudos MT and broadway...some great back and forth on the finer points and I can appreciate both sides of it for sure.

broadway I lean towards your way of thinking regarding the execution of a league's official rules, its usually pretty absolute. The best thing you can do in a league as the Commish is to take a lot of care in how you write your rules in the first place...ask for input from other Commish's in successful leagues and they'll usually send you their rules to use as a template. If you spend the time to read thru 2 or 3 examples you'll understand all the nuances and points of contention and you can usually craft something that is 98% of the way there. I'm also a firm believer that perfect or not, the rules are to be followed to the letter, otherwise you really mess with the integrity of the league, far more than any oversights or errors in the rules could ever do in fact. I've quit a couple leagues where the Commish tried to rewrite the constitution after the fact, its just not cool, everyone signs up for the league and agrees to abide by the same set of rules and principals, the Commish is no different so its unfair for him to act otherwise.

now MT, you make a great point with regard to the 'spirit' of the rules and the league and you're right that often its the Commish's job to act as a Supreme Court justice in interpreting the letter of the law. I think as a Commish you can get away with this most of the time if the rule is there already (in whole or in part) but is perhaps just ambiguously written or open to multiple interpretations. You just have to be wary of being heavy handed and ruling with the iron fist, its ALWAYS better to present these issues to the league for discussion so that all GMs feel part of the democratic process rather than acting as dictator (even if the rule (or lack thereof) stinks, as in this case). Something every rule set should have is a clause for rule 'tweaks' during the season thru a league vote, if you set this up in advance then all the GMs know the score and you'll seldom have any problems with it.

The final piece of the puzzle is having great GMs who are reasonable and committed to what is best for the league. There will always be quirks that come up every season that you'll have to deal with, but if you've got good GMs you can work thru almost anything. Be wary of the GM who spends all his time looking for loopholes and ways to 'cheat' the system...even if he is acting within the rules he is ignoring the 'spirit' of them and that's no good for anyone. I'm fortunate at the moment to be part of two awesome leagues where the GMs are very engaged and honorable and it makes a world of difference. I've even had GMs in the league I Commish come to me and say 'look I found this loophole that I could totally exploit but I don't think its right to do that, why don't we have a vote on it and try to fix it?'

[horrorfan]

Very well written and explained McGoo.

[broadwayblue94]

Bro I understand, whether he wants to do it or not is up to him, but as commissioner of the league if he feels the way it's functioning currently is detrimental to the league and wishes to change it, then it's perfectly legitimate that he does so based on what I stated above. I don't care if he wants to end up doing it or not that's his call...but he's asking whether or not he legitimately has the grounds to make such a change and like I stated above he absolutely does, I completely understand what you're saying but it doesn't change the fact that based on what was explained above he absolutely can change it on legitimate grounds should he see it necessary on his own end. If the people in his league can't handle that and want to quit like children then let them as it's likely inevitable anyway.

That's true...he produced a valid argument himself as to whether or not he has a legitimate reason to change the rules. And you're probably right too, managers who would walk midseason because of a rule change will probably walk after the season for the same reason. But it's still easier to replace owners in the offseason than midseason. That's why I say, he's got to live with the rules that are in place now...

[mikelong11]

Great discussion here guys.

Just wanted to offer a quick update so that if anyone else runs into this problem, reads this thread, and tries to implement the same change, they will be aware of what I just did.

So, long story short, The vote was 7 for "Now" and 5 for "Next season" - in regards to when we'd implement the rule. I then tried to implement the rule. HUGGGGGE problem though!

The rule is retroactive! It changed the scoring and standings from previous matchups. For example, Team A won their matchup 8-2 and benched their goalies after a shutout in week 2. When I made the change, the rule actually changed the score from this week to 6-4 because he had only 1 goalie start. FYI, this league is ESPN based.

So, if anyone ever runs into the same problem as me, just know that you cannot change the rules in ESPN leagues without it being retroactive. I had to switch the rule back, and we are just going to do a semi-honor system, and fully implement it next season.

Again, thanks got the discussion guys.

[broadwayblue94]

That sucks! But glad you got it all worked out and the league seems to be on board.