Reply With QuoteI've watched many of his KHL games along with WJC games and I just have that hunch, I have it for few players and prospects, but he's one of them.Originally Posted by fungchen3
Wow, that's extremely lofty dm.
Why do you feel this strongly about Tarasenko? Don't get me wrong, I think he will be a very good NHL player (and as a VT owner I'm excited) but Malkin was regarded as the clear best prospect in the world before he stepped foot on NHL ice, and Tarasenko isn't close to that right now.
And, as good as Tarasenko is, he is just not as dynamic and/or as skilled as Malkin - although I do like parts of his game better. If Tarasenko ends up similar to Parise or Kopitar I would be thrilled, let alone Malkin.
I would be curious to hear what you are basing this comparison on? How much have you watched Tarasenko play? Or are you going on just a gut hunch?
8-GM / WK-H2H
Forwards: G=2, A=1, PP/SH= +1, GWG= +2, Shootout G=1, HT= +1
D-Men/Captain: G=3/A=2
Goalies: W=3, OTL=1, SO= +2, SV= .10
Start = 13F, 6D, 2G / Keep 44 (3G)
Captain: Matthews
(F): MacKinnon, Pasta, Marner, Rantanen, Malkin, Barkov, M.Tkachuk, W.Nylander, Pettersson, Gaudreau, Laine, Keller, Miller, B.Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, L.Raymond, K.Johnson, Cozens, Quinn, Guenther, Kulich, Cooley
(D): Makar, Dahlin, Q.Hughes, Ekblad, Rielly, Werenski, Letang, Jones, Chychrun, Seider, Edvinsson, Jiricek, Korchinski, Mintyukov, Ceulemans, Hutson
(G): Shesterkin, Demko, Vejmelka
I've watched many of his KHL games along with WJC games and I just have that hunch, I have it for few players and prospects, but he's one of them.
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
Well I certainly hope you nail this one!! I think he could be an awesome player but my expectations are more along the lines of: 35G/40A on a steady basis, with maybe a couple 40G/45A years sprinkled in. If he is a reliable PPG threat I will be overjoyed (and will give you endless props for your faith and projections!!!)
8-GM / WK-H2H
Forwards: G=2, A=1, PP/SH= +1, GWG= +2, Shootout G=1, HT= +1
D-Men/Captain: G=3/A=2
Goalies: W=3, OTL=1, SO= +2, SV= .10
Start = 13F, 6D, 2G / Keep 44 (3G)
Captain: Matthews
(F): MacKinnon, Pasta, Marner, Rantanen, Malkin, Barkov, M.Tkachuk, W.Nylander, Pettersson, Gaudreau, Laine, Keller, Miller, B.Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, L.Raymond, K.Johnson, Cozens, Quinn, Guenther, Kulich, Cooley
(D): Makar, Dahlin, Q.Hughes, Ekblad, Rielly, Werenski, Letang, Jones, Chychrun, Seider, Edvinsson, Jiricek, Korchinski, Mintyukov, Ceulemans, Hutson
(G): Shesterkin, Demko, Vejmelka
Well, I might have been stretching 100 points but that's just my man crush on him and his upside lol. I think easily 85-90 with his skills and the Blues situation going forward, only time will tell.Well I certainly hope you nail this one!! I think he could be an awesome player but my expectations are more along the lines of: 35G/40A on a steady basis, with maybe a couple 40G/45A years sprinkled in. If he is a reliable PPG threat I will be overjoyed (and will give you endless props for your faith and projections!!!)
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
Thanks for the link and I understood that you weren't making the case that Tarasenko should be compared to Malkin.
As for comparing KHL stats to the NHL, I'm now more convinced than ever that it's a useless endeavour. KHL success does not translate well at all into NHL success, possibly worse than other leagues such as the SEL. Believe me, I've attempted to use KHL comparable in the past to highlight trends that I was hoping to see but failed miserably. The only thing I use their stats for at this point is to see that a player is on a nice upward trajectory and, as pointed out in this thread, Kuznetzov is a great example. If anyone had asked me at the start of the season who I'd take between Kuznetzov and Tarasenko I wouldn't have hesitated to say Tarasenko but the stats in the KHL this year would now lead me to take Kuznetzov 100 times out of 100.....I'm just playing the trends here and it' a long painful road to try to bet against them
100 out of 100 times Kuznetsov?? Really?
He does look like he could be great, don't get me wrong, but he has a few things going against him compared to Tarasenko.
He is much more of a one dimensional player, has less intagibles, is more of a playmaker and will very likely stay an extra year in Russia. These are big things in Fantasy keeper leagues where you have limited keepers, where goals count for more and where even coming to North America is uncertain.
At this point in time due to these points I would take Tarasenko 100 out of 100 times. If both were slated to come to America next year then it would be much much closer, but I would still choose Tarasenko mostly for his intangibles (mental part of the game and physical attributes).
I'm starting to think both of these guys will disappoint. There hasn't been an amazing Russian to join the league since Malkin and Ovechkin were drafted.
Sergei Bobrovsky is looking pretty good, no?
1) He has not been amazing 2) I still think he is a fluke 3) He's a goalie
Yes, really!
If you believe that there's some part of Tarasenko's offensive game that's going to translate exceptionally well to NA then stick with your guy, I'm not claiming you're wrong, I'm simply stating that Kuznetzov has excelled in the KHL this year and Tarasenko has stagnated/regressed in terms of offensive production. In my experience, this should at the very least, cause a re-evaluation of initial projections.......80+ point players are very hard to come by and they tend to excel year after year prior to NHL action.
The intangibles you mention, although very important to NHL teams, don't mean anything to most fantasy hockey teams. I'll take one dimensional all day long if that dimension includes filling the score sheet
Full disclosure: I don't own either of these players in any of my pools......trying to steer clear of most Russians at the moment.
The intangibles I speak of I do believe matter greatly to fantasy hockey as these types of players tend to get more ice time in all situations and tend to stick around for much longer.
Take Dany Heatley for example. He has always been a great talent, but he is inconsistent. You need to have the mental toughness and drive that has been written about quite a bit with Tarasenko. No one has seen either play much over here so that is all we have to go on for now. I had Heatley for awhile on my fantasy team and watched him a lot. There was a time when the big line of Spezza, Heatley and Alfie actually played defense quite well and that is when they were at their best. In order to first get the puck you have to play some decent defense. If you are very poor defensively and/or do not work hard you will be a defensive liability and will not be used as much.
There are players with as much talent as Crosby, but none of them come close to his complete dedication and efforts to become the best player he can be. Most one-dimensional offensive type players do not have these types of intagibles which I am talking about and therefore do not flourish as a FANTASY hockey player even though they possess equal or superior skill. There are countless players who are hyped to have amazing offensive skills, but are busts because they lack these intangibles (Turris and Filatov, for example).
According to all reports Tarasenko has all of the necessary qualities in spades to be a very very good overall and fantasy player. Admittedly I have researched Tarasenko much more, but have not read similar things at all with Kuznetsov.
You make some valid points and I do feel that you're probably on the right track thinking that Tarasenko is the 'safer' pick but I'd also point out that you could just as well be describing what is often referred to as a two-way-player....I cringe when I hear this phrase in the same sentence as one of my prospects.....always reminds me of guys like Hanzal, plenty of offensive talent but more useful to his NHL team as a two-way guy.
It sounds like you've put your research into Tarasenko....can you attempt to explain his lackluster production this year?
It is a little difficult to know for sure why his STATS may have regressed slightly from a year ago as we can't see him play in the KHL. What I do know and can only speculate on is that he is playing for his father/coach and I understand he may not want to give him any preferential treatment. He was getting almost no power play time from what I understand. They also tend to give younger players limited amounts of ice time. Also in the KHL they do not count 2nd assists and I think that Tarasenko is the type of player that will get many of these 2nd assists because of his style. He is a very hard worker who will win the battles in the corners and make the first nice play, which is often more important than the primary assist on a goal. Like I said earlier you can't score if you don't get the puck first.
The only other thing I have to base my opinions on is that I watched both Russia Canada WJC games very closely and IMO he dominated more than any other player including Schenn. Every time he touched the puck he looked dangerous and made very solid plays most of the time, but his teammates did not finish the plays off. He was also the captain of the team that won the gold medal. That is saying something as he was a leader and is highly respected. He hustled on every shift and backchecked extremely hard as well.
In the final he almost single handedly led the comeback. He was injured in the 2nd period and was told not to play anymore, but he continued anyway. Then on the first goal he helped start the play (and I believe deflected the puck before it was passed out front) to get the Russians going. Then he absolutely wired a one-timer to tie the game up 3-3 and finally made a brilliant rush along the boards and centred a very nifty pass out front for a relatively easy goal for the game winner. IMO he can do everything except probably fight. He is gritty, determined, is a proven leader and has stated that his goal is to come to the NHL. He should have been the MVP of that game IMO.
On top of that he is known as a goal scorer, but in the games I watched he actually seemed a little bit too UNselfish and should have shot the puck more. He is also an excellent physical specimen and is known as the 'Russian Tank'. No need to say more about that.
Of course this is just how I analyzed his play and I could be completely wrong, but I think I have a pretty good eye for hockey talent. I guess everyone does though LOL. I think we will get to see for ourselves this fall, but by then if you haven't grabbed him yet you will probably be too late and will have to pay much bigger price to get him then.
Kuznetsov looks more like a Spezza (though not much research on Kuznetsov) type player and Tarasenko more of an Iginla type player to me.
Just to clarify, I believe they do count the second assist in the KHL... just not as often. I read a while ago that 40% of goals in the KHL have a second assist while something like 80% of NHL goals have one. Don't qoute me on the numbers but I think it is something like that.
kuznetsov's style reminds me a lot of marty havlat. anyone agree?
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