Montreal Canadiens

[agentzero]

However you said language is not the reason the Habs suck, and that would be where I disagree. The Habs suck because they have a GM who has made a lot of bad decisions. It is very unlikely, both now and at the time of his hire, that he was truly the best candidate for the job. Since his hire, 13 GMs have been hired. I would speculate that Botterill, Treliving, Kekalainen, Nill, Hextall are all better GMs than Bergevin. Additionally, I would think that there are arguments that Francis, Chiarelli, and MacLellan might be. None of them would be given considering their lack of francophone status.

Frankly, the Montreal Canadiens have to accept that their GM is likely to make more mistakes then lots of other GMs, and more bad decisions than other GMs, because their hiring restrictions prevent them from hiring the best possible candidate. It impacts their current roster, their prospect pipeline, their trades, everything.

No, Bergevin does not suck because of his language status, but it would also be incorrect to say the current quality of the Habs has nothing to do with language.

Going down this line of thinking makes it seem like the Habs organization operates in some kind of lone nut operation which consistently ignores reality. While I am the first to point out the faults within the organization, there has to be a bit of context here that is being completely ignored.

The Habs operate in a francophone environment. Most of their local fan base is francophone, so is the media and so are the business that surround them and sponsor them. The company that owns them is historically and English one, but they've been doing business in Qu?bec for over a hundred years. I assure you, their business people and top management are at the very least bilingual, if not completely francophone.

French is the language of business where they work and as much as they "limit themselves" to candidates who can speak French (and I would venture to bet they would settle for broken French), I am willing to bet that from a "fit" perspective, many candidates don't want the Habs GM job for the very same reason, that is, if they don't speak French; specifically because they would have to interact with the fans, media, businesses and personnel in French and if they can't do that, then it becomes all the more challenging. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that any of the candidates you rang off there would even want the GM job in Montreal, for several reasons and maybe one of them being that they can't and don't want to speak French.

The equation isn't as simple as saying the Habs want a GM who can speak French because it's nice. They want that for a whole host of reasons, the most important one being the primary language of their market. It is a very normal business decision and as their past illustrates, they've been pretty darn successful even with this "limited pool".


I actually think it's been time for a while now to overhaul the pro development dept. Maybe even going as far as replacing Trevor Timmins, who seems to have a WHL penchant at the expense of talent in his own back yard (QC) and in the neighbour's yard (ON).

[rataylor22]

It's amazing the world groups like the UN manage to function despite language barriers, and presidents of different nations manage to converse despite the same problem.

Business idea. We're going to teach people lots of different languages, and then hire those people out to perform the function of allowing people who speak different languages to converse and understand each other. I think this has the potential to be a billion dollar idea.

[agentzero]

It's amazing the world groups like the UN manage to function despite language barriers, and presidents of different nations manage to converse despite the same problem.

Business idea. We're going to teach people lots of different languages, and then hire those people out to perform the function of allowing people who speak different languages to converse and understand each other. I think this has the potential to be a billion dollar idea.

I can guarantee you (and this, from experience) that business done through an interpreter is nowhere near as fruitful as business done directly with a person who speaks the same language as you do.

[rataylor22]

I can guarantee you (and this, from experience) that business done through an interpreter is nowhere near as fruitful as business done directly with a person who speaks the same language as you do.

It's not business. The GM conversing with fans and media is a by-product of his job. Not his job. His business is conducted with the rest of the GMs, agents, coaches, and players in the league, in English.

[evans334]

It's not business. The GM conversing with fans and media is a by-product of his job. Not his job. His business is conducted with the rest of the GMs, agents, coaches, and players in the league, in English.

There's two seperate things happening here, the Montreal Canadiens as an NHL team and the Montreal Canadiens as a provincial landmark.

The language piece has nothing to do with Montreal Canadiens as an organization in the NHL, it has to do with the it's status as a provincial landmark, the conservation of the French language in Quebec and politics.

I'm sure Molson, and the owners before him, are pressured by political parties to ensure that a francophone management is put in place and in turn he probably gets a favor here and there.

Les Habitants are such a large part of Quebec culture that it's used for more than just sports.

The language debate in Quebec still exists.

[agentzero]

It's not business. The GM conversing with fans and media is a by-product of his job. Not his job. His business is conducted with the rest of the GMs, agents, coaches, and players in the league, in English.

But it is business. The Habs are a business, in business. The primary focus of the business is making money. Icing a competitive team is part of it, but for iconic franchises like the Habs (and Leafs...), it comes second to a whole host of priorities, the first of which is making money. These franchises don't sell out tickets because they have the best teams. FAR from it. In fact, you could argue both franchises have had very mediocre success since the late 1970s and yet, their business influence and market share has grown. They sell out because of their connection to their business community, political community and fan bases, not because of how successful their hockey ops are. Yes it helps the numbers if they are successful, but despite what they tell the cameras, it's not their primary interest and when I say "their" I mean the shareholders, not the GMs and coaches... You might argue that as a secondary part of the hockey job, but in these markets, it's the part that speaks loudest. That's why they need francophones within the Habs. No other reason.

[rataylor22]

That's fine. Then Habs fans should not complain about losing and incompetence, when it happens. They choose culture over success. That's 100% fine. Completely. But don't complain about that choice during periods of little success.

[agentzero]

That's fine. Then Habs fans should not complain about losing and incompetence, when it happens. They choose culture over success. That's 100% fine. Completely. But don't complain about that choice during periods of little success.

I feel like Habs fans complain even when they win. lol.

[Tobias Funke]

It’s beyond baffling to me how anyone can’t see or admit that choosing your candidates for GM or coach from virtually one province compared to choosing from that one province and the entire rest of the hockey playing world isn’t severely limiting. Severely.

Imagine being a chef in a cooking competition vs 30 other chefs with the caveat that you can only select ingredients from Quebec while all your competitors have no limits as to where they obtain their ingredients.

Level playing field? Nope.
Professional suicide? Yup.

I mean, if fans want to be ok with this, fine I guess. Right now it’s the bane of my existence. But, just don’t act like there isn’t massive negative fallout with this model. This isn’t playing with one arm tied behind your back. This is chopping off your goddamn arms and legs.

[Tobias Funke]

Sorry. I’ve been watching classic Iron Chef episodes on YouTube. Only comparison that came to mind right now. Lol.

[ericdaoust]

The language factor is mostly for the media and politicians. They love it because they can get people in uproar over things they don't really care much about deep down. Perfect in the current clickbait era. Just like US politics ATM.

Most fans will fall under "screw you, entertain me". They might bitch and complain a bit but they want a winning team above all else. I mean, Toe Blake didn't speak the language and somehow that worked just fine at a time when that should have been a major issue.

[Tobias Funke]

Ya. But until they make hirings of only the best candidates, I’ll still feel the team is influenced by it and it does have negative impact.

Not that he was anything but a stop gap, but Randy Cunneyworth was lynched before he had a chance.

[agentzero]

lol to the Chef comparisons haha

Except no one said they are limited to people from Qu?bec, just to people who can speak French. Bob Gainey was from Peterborough.. Frank Selke from Kitchener..So it's not about being from that province.. it's about speaking French. I don't see that as an insane requirement, given the above.

Also, as an aside, the province of Qu?bec also seems to produce an awful lot of hockey talent. By concentration, historically and even today, it is probably one of the best pools.. and again, no one said this was limited to la Belle Province.. it has to do with speaking the language of your market.

[Tobias Funke]

lol to the Chef comparisons haha

Except no one said they are limited to people from Qu?bec, just to people who can speak French. Bob Gainey was from Peterborough.. Frank Selke from Kitchener..So it's not about being from that province.. it's about speaking French. I don't see that as an insane requirement, given the above.

Also, as an aside, the province of Qu?bec also seems to produce an awful lot of hockey talent. By concentration, historically and even today, it is probably one of the best pools.. and again, no one said this was limited to la Belle Province.. it has to do with speaking the language of your market.

Thats still a limitation though. Any model that puts a handcuff on your options isn’t good. And, ever since Bob Gainey lost his daughter to that horrific accident, the team has been hampered by the model.

[bergman]

It's about money, at least quite primarily. Take a look at his return and think about whether he should do anything differently. That would be quite the conclusion.