IMPORTANT! Pool wants to veto my trade - please provide me ur thoughts...thx so much!

[SeaDawg]

Datsyuk VS. Heatley
Datsyuk for Heatley is more or less equal. Datsyuk has more of an advantage because of the pnts he has produced in the past, his team, projection this year and because he wins TONS of faceoffs. But all in all I wouldn't mind being on either side between these 2 guys.

Spezza VS. Kessel
Spezza obviously a better player but not by much. Kessels potential has gone up tramendously from last year. The advantage here is to Kessel because there are less valuable wingers than there are centers. Kessel is also kept in more pools than Spezza especially since Heatley left. But then again I wouldnt mind being on either side between these 2 players. I lean more toward Spezza for player wise, but Kessel for pool wise.

PICKS
If you agree with me on the above then the last piece of the puzzle is the pics. 1st for a 5th is outrageous especially since the person recieving the two better valued players is also recieving a 1st!!

Now the person recieving Datsyuk claims he lost Heatley, but in return has the choice to keep Datsyuk or Kessel. Even if Datsyuk looses his C/W status that G.M. could still have him for next year because the C/W is kept throught the year.

I don't understand how no one sees this the way I do...
Give me a breakdown on how the Spezza trade won player per player please!

are you by chance one of the GM's that veto'd this deal?

Even if you don't think the Spezza side won the deal, do you think there was cheating or unethical behavior here? It isn't about who won or lost the deal.

And if you are just someone who is looking at who won or lost the deal, we honestly can't say because we don't know all the factors that come into play. In my league, I value Heatley more than Datsyuk because of PIMs. But we don't count FOW. In another league I am in, I value Spezza more than Kessel because we don't differentiate between positions. But either way, it doesn't matter who won or lost the deal. All that matters is that there was no obvious cheating or collusion involved in this deal.

[smack]

Datsyuk VS. Heatley
Datsyuk for Heatley is more or less equal. Datsyuk has more of an advantage because of the pnts he has produced in the past, his team, projection this year and because he wins TONS of faceoffs. But all in all I wouldn't mind being on either side between these 2 guys.

Spezza VS. Kessel
Spezza obviously a better player but not by much. Kessels potential has gone up tramendously from last year. The advantage here is to Kessel because there are less valuable wingers than there are centers. Kessel is also kept in more pools than Spezza especially since Heatley left. But then again I wouldnt mind being on either side between these 2 players. I lean more toward Spezza for player wise, but Kessel for pool wise.

PICKS
If you agree with me on the above then the last piece of the puzzle is the pics. 1st for a 5th is outrageous especially since the person recieving the two better valued players is also recieving a 1st!!

Now the person recieving Datsyuk claims he lost Heatley, but in return has the choice to keep Datsyuk or Kessel. Even if Datsyuk looses his C/W status that G.M. could still have him for next year because the C/W is kept throught the year.

I don't understand how no one sees this the way I do...
Give me a breakdown on how the Spezza trade won player per player please!

Spezza past 2 years:
57 and 73 points - 65pt avg.

Kessel past 2 years - 55 and 60 points - 57.5 avg.

Sure Spezza has more upside but to veto a deal cause of upside is absolutely ridiciulous. I won't even mention Spezza's proneness to injuries.

How you can justify vetoing this is beyond me. Good luck.

[A Watch]

Maybe Spezza side is better for Team A because he hates the leafs and never wants to cheer for them. Who cares? Its close and not a total tilt. I'd take Heatly over Datsuyk anyday. Get Malhotra if you want faceoffs.

As for pics, they are a crapshoot. I love trading pics because it means I traded a roll of the dice for a proven player.

In the end it doesn't matter if you think the trade is one sided. Let it happen and laugh at the guy later or suck it up when the Spezza side wins.

[subcrazy]

Spezza VS. Kessel
Spezza obviously a better player but not by much. Kessels potential has gone up tramendously from last year. The advantage here is to Kessel because there are less valuable wingers than there are centers. Kessel is also kept in more pools than Spezza especially since Heatley left. But then again I wouldnt mind being on either side between these 2 players. I lean more toward Spezza for player wise, but Kessel for pool wise.

Spezza is better by a lot in the fantasy world the only thing Kessel has for him is wing -- Lets take a look at some stats to help you see.

These stats do not count rookie season for both.
Also not counting the current season only 10 games not worth it.

Kessel over 3 years played 222 games out of 246 and has 152 pts with a average of 50.6 pts a year.

Spezza over 6 years played 431 games out of 492 and has 454 pts with a average of 75.6 pts a year

Lets take a look at spezza 3 years to match up against kessels

Spezza Over 3 years played 213 game out of 246 and has 232 pts with a average of 77.3 pts a year.
(Spezza plays 9 games less in a 3 year period but has 80 pts more)

So a extra 25 - 27 pts a year more depending on if u go by 3 year or his 6 year average. A very large margin

This post is just answer your questions I still think there should be no veto and that's very = trade.

[JIMMAY]

not at all.. at first glance it looked even.. and still does. They are probably pissed about the pick swap.

[SPOILER]

Wow, this is crazy. JUST SAY NO TO VETO!!!! Enough has been said why (but you have to know what a veto is before you can do one - please see poolgeeks post). GM Genius is obviously in this pool and not happy about the deal.

I would love to see an example of a trade that actually went through in your league!!!

[vanfan]

i agree, no veto.

[PocketRockets05]

Spezza past 2 years:
57 and 73 points - 65pt avg.

Kessel past 2 years - 55 and 60 points - 57.5 avg.

Sure Spezza has more upside but to veto a deal cause of upside is absolutely ridiciulous. I won't even mention Spezza's proneness to injuries.

How you can justify vetoing this is beyond me. Good luck.

I have no idea if this is someone in my pool who has tried to veto my trade, but I wouldn't doubt it. Funny how 35 replies to this thread and there is this one person who says they veto, and 34 people who have no idea how this trade can be vetoed.

[deadman77]

Sounds like this was started by someone who wanted one or both of your players but wouldnt pay the price and maybe a little jealous. Trade is just about even, except for the picks but in that case every league is different and every draft is different. By no means should this trade or any other ever be vetoed. {save collution}

[mister_mcgoo]

Dats = Heater
Spezza > Kessel
1st round > 5th round

that's how I score it...

the Spezza vs. Kessel part is a perfect example of why we have fantasy trades in the first place, its speculation on the future. If you buy into the Spezza hype then he's a 100 pt C if he can stay healthy (even though he almost never does...but I certainly think he has an 85-95 pt season left in him, thats the kinda year that can win you a championship!). Kessel has lotsa promise too but his career high is 60 pts, nothing special and nothing is guaranteed there. Plus he plays on a shitty team, how high can he really fly? He also had a bad bout with cancer, that's always cause for concern because it could come out of remission...hopefully not! but its a serious concern, look at guys like Koivu, Lemieux where it struck them down in their prime, its a red flag

so depending how you score Spezza - Kessel, the picks are either a small overpayment, a small underpayment or bang on, its just that simple, that's the kind of trade I barely blink at beyond my own personal analysis of the 2 GMs new rosters to see if I can possibly target a need via trade that will help MY TEAM...that's what these veto-munchers need to focus on, their OWN teams and how to improve them, not the teams of others

[rjfisher83]

Dats = Heater
Spezza > Kessel
1st round < 5th round

that's how I score it...

Don't you mean...

1st round > 5th round

Either way, no way is this vetoable (if that's a word).

[mister_mcgoo]

Don't you mean...

1st round > 5th round

Either way, no way is this vetoable (if that's a word).

oops, fat fingered it...fixed now

[PocketRockets05]

Hey guys, I just wanted to really thank all of you for responding to my difficult/frustrating situation yesterday. I really do appreciate it. This pool I am in is a money pool and is with all my closest friends. As sad as this sounds I am actually the commissioner for this league. I feel the majority of the managers in this pool do not understand the grasp of when to use a veto and when to not, nor the ability of being able to put the pool first before their own individual needs and wants. I knew this, and still know this. The majority of those people wanted Heatley off me, and Datsyuk off the other manager who traded him so you could see how personal bias was involved here.

As hockeypoolgeek put it with his first post, ONLY cheating/collusion should be reasons to veto a trade, and I VERY STRONGLY believe in that, but I don't think people in my pool understand it (even though I have it clearly stated in my commissioner note). By saying that, that's not to say that this trade has a clear winner or is even lopsided whatsoever (not that that's a reason to veto), but the fact the large majority of managers in my pool thought this trade was lopsided for starters, and secondly wanted to veto, shows you where their heads are at, and that they couldn't care less what I was preaching to them, instead they were more concerned over the fact they missed out on the sweepstakes.

Anyways, as you all know as friends grow up they all lead busier lives and I feel this pool connects us a bit so I'd rather not shut it down, or leave it, instead I am looking to try and improve its environment. As comish, I could've just let this trade go through instantly as I am the comish, the rules are stated in the comish note regarding trades only get taken back if there is collusion/cheating, and if you don't like it that's tough luck. But instead, I thought I'd go through the motions, post this thread fully knowing that all my fellow GM's would view it and fully knowing what all of you would say, and I was hoping based on all of your responses that I could use this thread as a learning tool to hopefully open my other manager's eyes and make them realize how trades should be handled, which would then in turn hopefully change the mentality of my pool when it comes to viewing trades if they heard the same things I was preaching from multiple sources.

In conclusion, the trade in itself has passed through, but I am not sure if the long-term environment of my pool has changed. I am hoping it has after this experience.

Once again, thank-you all for taking the time out of your busy days to make a post here. I really do appreciate it.

[SeaDawg]

well written, pocket. I hope things work out for you and your league. Glad we could help out.

[superluke]

there"s is only one reason why a trade can be vetoed....it's when two peoples decided to cheats .....

all trades should be accepted by default except if someone can proove the collusion of the 2 gm

so here you go!