Thugs and Hooligans

[pucknut2k1]

How long can the NHL continue to ignore the flaws in the game? Moving to marginalize enforcers and turn fighting into an orchestrated sideshow seems to have just heightened the thuggery in the game. The San Jose-Nashville series was rife with cheap shots, questionable hits and suspensions. In fact, Nashville has started to gain more of a reputation for borderline play than their highly skilled offensive corps. The meltdown by Calgary was on Slap Shot proportions. Brendan Morrow hopped on one foot to the Vancouver bench to contest a chop to his knee in the closing minutes of game 6.

And that\'s just the playoffs. There have been several well publicized flagrant fouls throughout the season, both by and against some of the superstars of the game, not just 4th line goons. Scrums are now the normal response to any solid hit (clean, dirty or marginal) or a stoppage by the goalie if there is an opponent within 10 feet of the crease. Meanwhile, the response from the league is diluted at best. Some hits are worth 25 games, some none. McLennan\'s slashes cost Calgary a backup goalie for 5 games and some \"harsh\" monetary penalties. In other words, does nothing to affect their core team and ignores similar actions by Iginla and Langkow. Nothing came out of the Dallas-Vancouver infractions.

But it seems to me that the core problem is with the players themselves. The \"code\" that hockey cherishes so much is dead. Retribution for on-ice infractions simply escalates into swapping questionable hits until someone snaps and draws a major penalty. Meanwhile, the \"tough guys\" collude to put on a good show for the fans who love a good fight, but don\'t actually defuse any of the bad blood.

For my money, I\'d rather see some honesty put back into the game. Get rid of the instigator penalty so that a cheap shot artist knows he\'ll have to defend his actions like a man. Opening up the ice for the skilled players is all well and good, but removing accountability has turned into removing respect. I\'d rather watch bench clearing brawls than say I witnessed it when one player snapped and killed another. Fighting isn\'t always the answer, but I think a kinder, gentler NHL will have to wait for a new crop of players. Bring the kids up for the kind of game you\'d like to see. Trying to teach these old dogs new tricks is turning out some very aggressive dogs.

[Dobber]

I agree - the code has left the game. Now you see a lot of antics. It\'s like drama class out there half the time.
You know what would stop some of the hopping on one foot, or the diving or the stupid cheap shots? A good punch in the face.

The instigator being removed would work wonders.

I also like Mike Brophy\'s suggestion that you can only fight if you play 10 minutes per game or more. If you fight and your average ice time is less - your suspended five games. That gets rid of the professional goons. I like tough skill guys. The meatheads can go. All they do is fight each other anyway, which just results in holding each other\'s jersey and dancing around the ice. The good fights are always the middle or lightweights.

[Steffen]

Great thread. Hope I can keep up.

The instigator penalty goes, and what happens? The pitbulls retire their way out of the game? I don\'t get it...

Brophy\'s suggestion, as cited by Dobber, is unwieldy.
Suspensions based on avg mins/game? Too complex for Be/uttman\'s marketers.

There\'s a growing recognition of concussions, and of hockey headshots.

I say everything should stop when a player\'s helmet comes off. Aren\'t half the hockey concussions about heads hitting ice? Let fights stop when a helmet leaves its egg, otherwise its remover faces an automatic major penalty and/or league suspension. That oughta fix things.

[gdon]

Concussions aren\'t from hitting the ice its from hitting the cast-iron like shoulder/elbow pads players wear. Fighting is part of the game.. I\'ve been against dropping the instigator for a while, but am slowly believing the hype from the old guard. I think the new game is already weeding out the professional goons. Laraque just can\'t keep up so he couldn\'t play. With those guys unable to play keeping them around doesn\'t make sense so the Brophy idea won\'t be needed.

I say drop the instigator, drop the gloves and play some freakin\' hockey!!!:woohoo:

[Thieving Giraffe]

I\'m also not a fan of the instigator rule, and would like to see the players able to police themselves again. But I\'m also not sure I agree with an underlying premise of the original post, as I read it... that these antics are largely without consequence. Nashville lost Radulov to that hit, and he couldn\'t hit his stride again after the game off. Scott Nichol took the major penalty for spearing that killed the Preds\' momentum in Game 5. Once you get to the playoffs, you play disciplined or you\'re done playing after the first round. And the playoffs are everything. THAT is the nature of the game that I love. I\'m not saying that the league is completely healthy, but it ain\'t broke either in my opinion, not until dirty play starts producing positive results in the playoffs.

[pucknut2k1]

I guess one of my major concerns is that a \"positive result\" isn\'t too far from the reality. Hartnell was suspended for his knee on knee hit against Cheechoo. And while Cheechoo was largely a non-factor in the series on the score sheet (0G 3A), losing him for the series might have given a different result.

Similarly, while karma smiled on Franzen yesterday, would the game 6 outcome have been different if McLennan\'s slash had ruptured his spleen? And on a smaller scale, Calgary did see a positive result in that goalie interference call on Holmstrom when he wasn\'t in the crease and didn\'t actually touch Kipper. In an effort to avoid another meltdown, the officials turned a non-event into a PP.

But overall, I\'m using the playoffs as a microcosm of the whole, simply because it\'s fresh on my mind. It annoys me that any hit in the corner seems to result in a group hug of rabbit punches and face washes. It annoys me that any stoppage by the goalie will see jabs or cross checks thrown at any opponent below the circles. Seems to me that is when fuses get lit and apparently some of these players are complete powder kegs.

While dropping the instigator might not be the complete solution, it seems to me to be the simplest one. Barring that, the league needs to set some standards with how they hand out suspensions. Currently the consequence for slashing with an intent to injure is either 25 games or 5. Butt-ending is none. A sucker punch is 5, 3 or what? Just seems to me that the current \"threat\" of possibly being on the ice later against an enforcer or cheap shot artist, or the nebulous threat of an arbitrary suspension for your actions isn\'t a deterrent. And eventually someone isn\'t going to get back up.

[goose191919]

Nashville seemed to try the tactics that Edmonton used against the Sharks last year in the playoffs with all of their cheap hits (a la elbow to the head of Michalek last year from Raffi Torres). Hartnell did NOT get suspended for his knee-to-knee hit, even though he got a game suspension. In fact, he got three game suspensions in the first two playoff games, but the last two were overturned (which was BS). Radulov got a one game suspension, but surprisingly, Bernier did not miss any ice time. Cheechoo, however, did not play up to his caliber as he was obviously still hurting.

There was an article in the San Jose Mercury News about how Rivet played against Thornton when they were on Montreal and Boston, respectively. Joe was playing with hurt ribs, but supposedly, nobody knew. Rivet, however, knew about his hurt ribs, as did the whole Montreal team. He said that they all knew he was playing with hurt ribs and that everyone on the ice would target him there. That makes me question the NHL teams\' policy of not disclosing injuries other than upper or lower body. What does it matter anyways?

[Steffen]

Okay, I confess. I had never heard of Paul Henderson\'s...

SPOILER ALERT FOR ALZHEIMEIMERS PATIENTS AND STONERS....OKAY, CONTINUE READING NOW...

...1972 Canada-Russia summit series game-winning goal being scored under the [strong] influence of a concussion. (I just watched the CBC mini-series for the 1st time -- I was young[er] when it originally happened, okay?)

It was portrayed as if his concussion enabled him to ignore what was going around him, and to simply play his own game... Today he\'d be out a month or more before getting that shot on net.

Have concussions become the new political football between players and management? I suspect so.
Is Connolly a participant or a pawn? The latter probably, but health and safety has got to be on the next NHLPA agenda.

[repenttokyo]

Steffen wrote:

Have concussions become the new political football between players and management? I suspect so.
Is Connolly a participant or a pawn? The latter probably, but health and safety has got to be on the next NHLPA agenda.

i think that people are just more aware now of the dangers of concussions and players feel they have more to lose if they exacerbate such an injury.

[GoHabsGo]

I agree with repenttokyo. I played ice hockey and I use to get headaches after bodychecks from guys and I did have 2 blackouts from bodychecks that lasted less than 5 minutes. Of course, no coach/trainer knew that these all where different levels of concussions.