Problematic GM in my league.

[agentzero]

What about the fact that his not paying has not been an issue for the league? In fact, unrealmine states that "not paying in the league is not a big deal...you just can't win the money that year" (paraphrased). You can't boot a guy for not paying when you have a stipulation in the rules for people who don't pay.

True enough, PensInThree. You can't boot a guy if the league is acquiescing to his rule breaking. I'm personally dumbfounded by this, but if they want it that way, fine with me as it's their league. Only, I would say I'm really not a fan of this guy so far and people get booted from leagues for less. It seems to me like he has very little interest in staying in that league anyway...

[The Comish]

Ok, we could be overracting but this is why I come here for advice. There's a little thing like him not showing up to the draft the last 2 years. Some people are busy, can't help it but it's the draft come on!

Now the actual problems are: 1) The deadline for payments is the draft. It's a nice, easy deadline. Who can't get $25 by the draft? Dude hasn't paid the money the last 2 years.

2) Not paying isn't too big a deal in our league the person just can't win whatever is in the pot if they win that year but they can still get the glory. His team was ranked near the bottom at the draft then by the time playoffs rolled around he was 3rd overall in our league. 2-3 weeks before the playoffs, with his spot secured he wanted to pay his fee. The league GM said he wouldn't allow. The GM in question and a fellow GM took it upon themselves to bring it to a vote without the league GM's concent. The league voted in favour of him not paying so he bailed a bit on his team in a trade.

3) Recently he wanted to get a trade done where he would get a keeper position from another GM who only had 4 legit keepers for a couple of draft picks. The league rules clearly state that you keep 5 going into the keeper deadline then you can trade your keepers in an offer sheet (an ass load of picks) type situation. He wanted to keep 6 of his own guys which is not allowed.

He has now traded his 6th keeper to the other GM for a draft pick. There is now speculation that the other GM is holding onto the keeper and will trade him back after the keeper deadline is over. The league GM has warned these 2 that he won't stand for any sort of keeper holding. The league GM has a new rule in his back pocket that he will introduce if he must. Basically if you trade a guy before the keeper deadline you cannot trade him back to the GM you got him from until after the draft.

Hope this isn't too confusing but a few of us are pretty pissed.

Not being able to make a draft can happen, everyone is busier than ever, but HE needs to make arrangements for someone to make his picks, preferably providing a list and instructions. He shouldn't just not show up without letting the commish know what's up.

The commish MUST put an email out to all saying that if you don't pay by a certain date (make it no later than the draft itself), then you can't draft a team. Simple and once it's sent out, it's in writing. If someone doesn't pay, then they don't draft a team. One problem solved.

Next, five keepers is five keepers, not six. The math doesn't get any easier. Next question.

No "holding" or "hiding" protected players for other teams or obvious trade backs - that will kill your league faster than you can say "Bettman sucks". I'm not sure how trades are approved in your league, by league vote or commish only, but every deal must stand on it's own merit for the league to have any credibility.

It sounds like the wayward owner doesn't want to play by the rules (or he doesn't understand them). He either needs to play by the rules or not play at all and that needs to be communicated to him by the commish.

It was a good idea coming forward on this, you'll get some great advice from the posters on this site!

[theunrealmine]

The not paying thing is definitely getting on the league GMs nerves. He's too relaxed when it comes to that kind of stuff. It's not so much a rule as the way he handles it because he doesn't want to step on anyone's toes. I'd be more of a dick and say pay or get the hell out. That's just me. I'm definitely going to talk to him about a penalty for non-payment then a cut off date where your team is frozen out of the league for this coming season.

[Shake]

Secondly, and more directly to your situation, that GM in your league would have been long gone had it been my league. I enforce a strict deadline for payment of league dues, if you don't pay by the deadline (or give me a damn good excuse for an extension) your access is immediately cancelled and the team is auctioned off, end of story. This guy sounds like a complete douchebag, I'd cut him loose and find yourself a good GM, there are lots of great guys on here just post in this forum and you'll get a ton of offers to join:

http://www.dobberhockey.com/forums/f...splay.php?f=16

yep exactly was I saying , agree with McGoo 100% and piggy back it, there is nothing worse than having a great league with a good bunch of guys only for a douche to not show league integrity , pay the fees, show up for drafts. It's unfair to the other members of the league, ( not being present for a draft could wreck a league's balance) and not paying for your place in the league is a slap in the face to the owners that are paying their fee. If I was a GM in your league and im at drafts and im paying my fee and im seeing this other guy no pay, no be at drafts, im on your ass to get a new owner ASAP.

In my leagues I always send reminders that " league fees" are coming soon, payments are due on this day etc etc..

I run full keeper leagues but NOTHING goes forward in the new season until I have received everyone's payment..thats the lifeline for me , it tells me your committed, your ready, lets roll

Alot of times guys will pay for 2 years at a time..and I just keep all that in my paypal acct - OR guys will just say take my winnings and use part of it as my next year's fee" etc..

anyway im rambling...point is...find yourself a good owner that will help your league grow in a positive direction.

[agentzero]

Good idea, theunrealmine. Someone has to draw a line in the sand for this guy. Now.




Ps. Welcome back, Russ! Ryan Ma said you were on hiatus...Or is that just from the writing, not the forum..

[mister_mcgoo]

What about the fact that his not paying has not been an issue for the league? In fact, unrealmine states that "not paying in the league is not a big deal...you just can't win the money that year" (paraphrased). You can't boot a guy for not paying when you have a stipulation in the rules for people who don't pay.

that whole last paragraph was MY personal take on what I would do if that GM was in my league...obviously if your league is down with freeloaders and shysters then that's your call but its no league that I would want any part of thats for sure! And I suspect many of the GMs in this league will eventually get fed up and quit if this nonsense is allowed to continue.

You either play in leagues that are just for fun or for money, you can't blend the two, it just doesn't fly

[PensInThree]

that whole last paragraph was MY personal take on what I would do if that GM was in my league...obviously if your league is down with freeloaders and shysters then that's your call but its no league that I would want any part of thats for sure! And I suspect many of the GMs in this league will eventually get fed up and quit if this nonsense is allowed to continue.

You either play in leagues that are just for fun or for money, you can't blend the two, it just doesn't fly

Completely agree. Was just pointing out that in this particular case given what's gone on you can't boot him immediately. First you've got to amend the rules.

[mister_mcgoo]

The not paying thing is definitely getting on the league GMs nerves. He's too relaxed when it comes to that kind of stuff. It's not so much a rule as the way he handles it because he doesn't want to step on anyone's toes. I'd be more of a dick and say pay or get the hell out. That's just me. I'm definitely going to talk to him about a penalty for non-payment then a cut off date where your team is frozen out of the league for this coming season.

or if he happens to stay in the league it would be hilarious if he placed like 3rd or something and won $75, then you could say 'thank you very much for your dues for 3 seasons!'

[agentzero]

You either play in leagues that are just for fun or for money, you can't blend the two, it just doesn't fly

My league is for fun....and for money...Perhaps because the amount of money to be won is nominal. Bragging rights are worth so much more.....

[agentzero]

or if he happens to stay in the league it would be hilarious if he placed like 3rd or something and won $75, then you could say 'thank you very much for your dues for 3 seasons!'

Hahahaha that's a good way to get around it...

[mister_mcgoo]

My league is for fun....and for money...Perhaps because the amount of money to be won is nominal. Bragging rights are worth so much more.....

well yes of course ALL leagues are for fun otherwise we wouldn't do it!
I meant that you can't have half the league paying in and half playing 'just for fun' and not paying in

[PensInThree]

My league is for fun....and for money...Perhaps because the amount of money to be won is nominal. Bragging rights are worth so much more.....

Kind of like a five dollar p0ker game. The money maintains the integrity and interest but nobody really cares about winning or losing it.

[theunrealmine]

Five dollar poker game, nice. My thoughts are if this particular GM does the whole "collusion" thing with another GM then he is gone and the other GM gets a warning. The other GM is clearly not innocent in this matter but this is his 1st incident with this sort of thing.

[agentzero]

well yes of course ALL leagues are for fun otherwise we wouldn't do it!
I meant that you can't have half the league paying in and half playing 'just for fun' and not paying in

Of course Mcgoo. I was just pulling your leg a little. I completely agree with your points.

Kind of like a five dollar p0ker game. The money maintains the integrity and interest but nobody really cares about winning or losing it.

In essence, that's probably the best comparison to my league, yes. But as we discussed at length, this is like having a guy show up and not even cough up the 5-15 bucks he's supposed to, every poker night, and still get a chance to play/win. As Mcgoo said, withholding any winnings is likely the best solution to a problem like this, where the other GMs don't want to boot him and he doesn't want to pay but they don't see it as a big deal.

[agentzero]

Five dollar poker game, nice. My thoughts are if this particular GM does the whole "collusion" thing with another GM then he is gone and the other GM gets a warning. The other GM is clearly not innocent in this matter but this is his 1st incident with this sort of thing.

Any collusion in my league is dealt with very severely. It's not even a warning. It's sanctions to the tune of loss of all draft picks and/or roster movements and expulsion. Collusion is not cool. It's cold.