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Thread: #3 Overall

  1. #16
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    #3 overall? Forget the Dmen and the total package forwards that NHL teams drool over and dont become studs in fantasy. Get your goals.

    Jeff Skinner
    6Team/Points Only H2H Keep: 37+3goalies Start: 13F/6D/2G
    FWD = G(2), A(1), PP/SH(+1), GW(+2), SHOG(1)
    DEF = G(3), A(2), PP/SH(+1), GW(+2), SHOG(1)
    GOAL = W(3), OTL(1), SO(+2), SV(.10)

    FOR: Malkin Ovechkin Kessel Stepan Gaborik Zetterberg Carter Vanek Pacioretty Duchene Skinner Lupul Hornqvist Perron Semin Okposo Byfuglien Granlund Bennett Strome Bjugstad Nichushkin Yakupov Galchenyuk Grigorenko Kuznetsov Kucherov Etem Burakovsky
    D: Letang Goligoski Kronwall Voynov JustinSchultz Hedman RyanMurphy AdamLarsson Pulock Sproul
    G: Lundqvist Lehtonen Schneider

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiantonio View Post
    #3 overall? Forget the Dmen and the total package forwards that NHL teams drool over and dont become studs in fantasy. Get your goals.

    Jeff Skinner
    I like Skinner too. He has the potential to be in the NHL as soon as next season and fantasy-wise could very well be an impact player in 2-3 seasons. He has the skill to pot 40 goals in the NHL one day.

    I was surprised but quite satisfied when I managed to snag him with the 20th overall pick in my 30-team keeper league entry draft.

    I tend to not draft defensemen during entry drafts (for fantasy obviously) because they tend to be much more of a question mark then forwards. The top few defensemen (Fowler, Gormley, Gudbranson, etc) are all going to be solid NHLers, that's for sure. But fantasy-wise, their production is far from assured - they could top out at 30 points or at 60 and still be effective NHL players either way. For that reason, generally avoid drafting NHL defensemen at the entry draft - I prefer to go after them 2-3 years after their draft date, because by that point it becomes much clearer what kind of player they are developing into and what kind of role they'll get on the team that drafted them.

    The other issue with young defensemen is that they take far longer (in general) to develop then forwards do. The top drafted forwards tend to be top-line, valuable fantasy players 2-3 years after they're drafted; the second-tier draftees probably 4-5 years afterwards. With defensemen though, it's rare to see a player produce meaningful numbers before they hit 23. Sure, there are exceptions like Myers and Phaneuf, but these are few and far between. Guys like Karlsson and Carlson could produce early too, but again, these don't occur very often. More often then not, young defensemen at the NHL level work on their defensive skills first so as not to be a liability on the ice, and then, after establishing themselves and earning confidence in themselves and the coach, they may begin to take offensive risks and produce more. Whereas with forwards, they are generally given the green light right away to take offensive risks (centres are generally the exceptions as they have more responsibilities to cover), and therefore will start producing more, earlier.

    If you're going to draft a defenseman, only take one that is clearly an offensive defenseman. Fowler, for example, is definitely an offensive defenseman, though he does have some two-way qualities as well. Other examples of offensive defensemen in this year's draft include Joey Laleggia (also drafted by me), Stephan Silas and Ryan O'Connor. Guys like Gormley, Gudbranson, Pysyk and McIlrath are far more two-way and will most definitely be making the NHL in a more defensive role first. Eventually, they will become effective, point-producing NHL defensemen, but that process takes time - often 3-4 years. We're seeing that with guys like Hedman, Erik Johnson, Kulikov, etc.

    So back to the original topic... with that #3 pick I would probably take Skinner or Fowler, but Granlund, Tarasenko or perhaps Connolly would all be reasonable as well. Tarasenko will probably be the best forward available long-term behind Hall and Seguin, but he'll be in the KHL for the next 1-2 years and perhaps longer. Connolly is a bit of a risk with his injury and all, but he'll probably pan out to be a pretty effective offensive force. Granlund is the safest pick IMO, but I don't think he possesses quite the same upside that Skinner, Tarasenko or Connolly do.
    Salary-capped 30-team keeper pool

    C: Lecavalier, O. Jokinen, Sobotka, Prust, Stone, Colborne, Skinner
    LW: Ott, Kariya, Filatov, Zharkov, Tambellini, Duco
    RW: Mueller, Kostitsyn, Vrbata, Neil, Zharkov, Petrov
    D: Phaneuf, Karlsson, White, Del Zotto, Foster, A. Greene, Babchuk, Goncharov, Josi, MacDonald, Ness
    G: Rask, Thomas, Holtby

    FW Stats: P 2, +/- 2, PIM 1, PPP 1, SHP 1, GWG 2
    D Stats: P 4, +/- 2, PIM 1, PPP 1, SHP 1, GWG 2
    G Stats: W 10, L 0, OTL 5, SO 10, A 10, PIM 1

  3. #18
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    Honestly, this seems like a pretty crappy draft to have the 3rd overall pick, fantasy-wise. I mean yeah, you will get a good player, no doubt about that. But unless there's a certain player you are in love with, it doesn't have much more value than picks 4-10.

    you could take any of Connolly, Fowler, Skinner, Niederreiter, Granlund, Campbell, or Tarasenko a 3, and no one would bat an eye.

    If you don't like any of these guys more than the other, I would suggest trying to trade down a few spots and pick up some extra picks.
    Last edited by Rock Kickass; June 21, 2010 at 3:15 PM.

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    thats a pretty good point, mr rock kickass.

    if i had 3rd, i'd strongly look at trading down. add Johansen and Burmistrov to your list and i would be happy landing any of those guys (well, except Granlund... but that is a personal opinion and seems to be sinking heavily into minority status, lol).

    and furthermore, rock always wins.

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    Just curious UW, what are your thoughts on granlund? I've only seen few clips of him playing and read a bit about his sub-par skating and speed. Is he worth targeting in the 6-10 range?
    12 Team H2H Yahoo Dynasty (19 main/20 farm)
    G, A, +/-, PPP, SOG, HIT, BLK, W, GAA, SV%, SHO
    2C, 2RW, 2LW, 2F, 5D, 2G, 4B, 5 IR

    C: Crosby, Duchene, Galchenyuk, Stamkos
    LW: Gusev, Huberdeau, Teravainen, M. Tkachuk
    RW: Kucherov, Rantanen, Tarasenko
    D: Carlson, Ekblad, Gudas, Hedman, Werenski, Yandle
    G: Holtby, Murray

    Farm: Barre-Boulet, Bjork, Borgstrom, Chmelevski, Dahlen, Poehling, Studnicka, Tomasino, Vilardi, Zegras, Afanasyev, Dorofeyev, Puljujarvi, J. Robertson, Noel, Wahlstrom, Hollowell, Pilut, York, Demko, Husso, Rodrigue, Sandstrom, Soderstrom, Sorokin

  6. #21
    butch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
    Uber fail Z...
    I'm glad you said it , not me


  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by indianapwns View Post
    Just curious UW, what are your thoughts on granlund? I've only seen few clips of him playing and read a bit about his sub-par skating and speed. Is he worth targeting in the 6-10 range?
    Here's what Dobber says about Granlund in the Prospect Guide. Consider it a preview. If you like it, then go buy the guide

    Granlund, Mikael (C/RW)- HIFK, SM-Liiga

    Enough about Granlund and his so-called below-average skating ability. While not St. Louis fast - and Martin St. Louis didn't start out that fast - Granlund is nevertheless a dynamic and agile skater who has had no trouble competing on the larger ice surface against men - men who are in Finland primarily because they possess a great deal of speed and skill but not the other traits that make up an NHLer. Physique, also, should not pose a problem; while most definitely below-average in height, some of the NHL's best right wings are Granlund's size (5'10, 176 lbs) or smaller; think Patrick Kane (5'10, 175 lbs) the aforementioned St. Louis (5'9, 177 lbs) and Brian Gionta (5'7, 175 lbs). Granlund is also gritty, as willing to absorb a hit as he is to lay one- and he loves to hit.
    Granlund ended the SM-Liiga season strong, finishing a point shy of that league's record for points by a U18 player (Olli Jokinen- 41 points). In six playoff games, he added a further 1-5-6, one point shy of the league post-season scoring lead despite playing six and seven games fewer than the co-leaders (Teemu Hartikainen and Sami Vantanen, respectively). Granlund may not seem like he has the body or speed to an NHLer right away, but a smart team will give him a go- size is not everything, and he has everything else. Potential: Star forward, 20-50-70+
    10 Team H2H Points-based Keeper League

    G, A, PIM, SOG, +/-
    W, SO, SV, GA

    C: H. Sedin, Stamkos, Backstrom, Duchene, Granlund
    LW: D. Sedin, Landeskog, B. Schenn, Tatar, Boedker
    RW: P. Kane, Voracek, Hudler, Silfverberg, Toffoli
    D: Ehrhoff, Edler, Franson, Del Zotto, Myers, R. Ellis, Hamonic
    G: Quick, Bishop, Holtby, Peters, M. Jones

    Farm: Terevainen, Nurse, Raanta

    League Champion: 2009, 2011, 2013 and 2014

    12 Team Roto Dynasty League Champion: 2011 and 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by indianapwns View Post
    Just curious UW, what are your thoughts on granlund? I've only seen few clips of him playing and read a bit about his sub-par skating and speed. Is he worth targeting in the 6-10 range?
    bit of a hunch. Bugg loves him, as you can see from what natgeo previewed for you. he certainly put up some pretty impressive stats over in Finland.

    the two times i've seen him play (WJC exhibition game and recent U18), i wasn't impressed much. nothing stood out to me that would explain the hype he gets. maybe i just "saw-him-bad"? he did lead the U18 tourney in scoring, but then again, Toni Rajala killed that same tournament last year (breaking a points record set by Ovechkin, of all people) and after seeing him plenty of times this year with Brandon, i really struggle to imagine Rajala playing in the NHL... like REALLY.

    i've heard Saku Koivu comparisons. that is good - but not top pick good, and i will be shooting for bigger fish when i'm drafting. i think i'd quite happily scoop him up after the top 15 or so picks (deep league, obviously), just on the chance that he plays as a winger. but as a centre, i don't have a lot of interest in him.

  9. #24
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    You may be right UW. If Granlund or Rajala become fantasy relevant -- which I still think they might -- it probably won't be for quite a few years. St. Louis really didn't become fantasy relevant until he was 28 or 29. That's a long time to sit on a prospect and hope for something to happen.

    Much as we like to imagine all this great upside, fantasy hockey enthusiasts tend to be a lot more impatient with a player's development curve.
    10 Team H2H Points-based Keeper League

    G, A, PIM, SOG, +/-
    W, SO, SV, GA

    C: H. Sedin, Stamkos, Backstrom, Duchene, Granlund
    LW: D. Sedin, Landeskog, B. Schenn, Tatar, Boedker
    RW: P. Kane, Voracek, Hudler, Silfverberg, Toffoli
    D: Ehrhoff, Edler, Franson, Del Zotto, Myers, R. Ellis, Hamonic
    G: Quick, Bishop, Holtby, Peters, M. Jones

    Farm: Terevainen, Nurse, Raanta

    League Champion: 2009, 2011, 2013 and 2014

    12 Team Roto Dynasty League Champion: 2011 and 2013

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    i wanted to come back to this thread and add one point - much of my opinion of Granlund will be swayed by where he goes in the draft and to whom.

    if he goes highly to a smart team, i'll know i'm probably wrong about the kid. if he falls, and smart teams like Detroit or Chicago or desperate teams like Pittsburgh leave him on the board, then i'll know i'm somewhat right.

    if DET picks him at 21, then we'll know the kid is legit but the wait could be glacial.

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    i think i'm leaning towards admitting i was wrong, at least at this early juncture (haha.... juncture).

    despite how things have worked out for them, i generally think Minny's scouting has a good eye for talent and usually i like their picks. their problems have always come from what happens after the picks are made (rushed prospects, injuries, etc).

    there has been some talk of the Wild signing Jokinen tomorrow. not sure if Granlund is or should be playing this year, but in a year or two Jokinen would be a perfect center to put with a playmaking RW like Granlund.

    if i was looking for safety in my draft picks, i'd probably slot him before the two "K" russians - Kuznetsov and Kabanov. probably ahead of Schwartz too since he seems like he'll arrive sooner. Dobber is right - Minny is a good situation for him.

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