DailyFaceoff.com stealing from LeftWingLock!

[Katharsis]

I usually make it a rule to stay out of internet "comment" debates, but that "Open Letter" bullshit excuse and the following comments are just too much, I had to write something.

What a bunch of absolute shysters.

It wouldn't even be that bad if they just stuck to the "it only happened a few times" and then apologized and promised to give future credit where it was due. But no, they have to try and weasel out of any blame at all, deflecting anything negative while still trying to say it's not a big deal because "That's only a small part of what we do here!"

Anyone want to start a hockey betting blog and just steal... erm I mean... post publicly available betting odds off of DFO?

[little_boyes_semin]

Anyone want to start a hockey betting blog and just steal... erm I mean... post publicly available betting odds off of DFO?

You'd, unfortunately, have to give credit to DFO for their odds... they own them. There's nothing stopping you from linking to their site, but you can't just steal their info and put it on your site.

DFO isn't stealing data or information from LWL, they are just providing the same links (which are publicly available and aren't the property of LWL).

[Katharsis]

I agree with dailyfaceoff's rebuttal. All that he's taking are links which were publicly available to begin with.

If someone re-posted dobber's ramblings on another site, that would be theft, but if someone re-posted public links (for instance, to youtube videos) taken from dobber's ramblings, then it isn't theft and it's perfectly acceptable.

LWL profits off the work of beat writers and bloggers, daily faceoff profits off the work done by LWL... simple as that.

Here's an example... say I create a site called "the best cat videos" and simply had a bunch of links to youtube cat videos listed on my site... there is NOTHING stopping other sites from taking these links and posting them... I don't own the links, I don't deserve credit for them... these other sites stealing my links don't need to give credit where none is due (ie: to me).. they just need to give credit to youtube.

It takes a LOT of time and effort to comb through papers, blogs, twitter feeds, and beat writer reports to get starting goalie info. I'm not talking out of my ass here, as I've tried to keep up with it before, and you just get worn out if you're not committed to it.

The part where I think you're mistaken, and I'm betting others would to, is that DFO and LWL profit off of the freely available public information - they're not. They're profiting off the supposed work and time it takes to compile all of that information into one place that's easily accessible to readers.

This is the exact work that DFO was caught stealing DIRECTLY from a competitor, and is know refusing to acknowledge it as such. It's completely idiotic and reeks of high school logic.

[little_boyes_semin]

I've studied mathematical logic and philosophical logic, but I've never heard of high school logic.

To roll with my previous example, I submit that it may take a lot of time and effort to keep up with the latest awesome cat videos on youtube, but the bottom line is that if my site is nothing but a list of links to awesome cat videos hosted on other sites, then there's nothing to stop others from stealing these links for their own site.

[Katharsis]

You'd, unfortunately, have to give credit to DFO for their odds... they own them. There's nothing stopping you from linking to their site, but you can't just steal their info and put it on your site.

Where do they own them?

The (c) at the bottom of their website?

Then what about the (c) at the bottom of LWL?

I mean, if anything online that is free and publicly available is fair game here, why can't I just take their betting info?

[little_boyes_semin]

Where do they own them?

The (c) at the bottom of their website?

Then what about the (c) at the bottom of LWL?

I mean, if anything online that is free and publicly available is fair game here, why can't I just take their betting info?

Those odds are created by DFO... the LWL links are created by beat writers and bloggers... those writers/bloggers are given credit by DFO through their links.

[Katharsis]

I've studied mathematical logic and philosophical logic, but I've never heard of high school logic.

To roll with my previous example, I submit that it may take a lot of time and effort to keep up with the latest awesome cat videos on youtube, but the bottom line is that if my site is nothing but a list of links to awesome cat videos hosted on other sites, then there's nothing to stop others from stealing these links for their own site.

That's true that you can't stop others from stealing it, and I don't argue that point at all. That doesn't make it right that someone else is taking your work, directly off of your site, and reposting it for profit.

And really, like I said, it's not that the simple act of taking the links bugs me. It's the fact that not only were they stupid enough to completely **** up stealing the links, once they were caught for it, with clear as day evidence of it, they just post that "Letter" and hope it all goes away.

[VintageVibe]

I guess now I know who are the people buying stolen goods from the "dude" with the selection in his trunk. Those are cheaper and nice as well!

Hahahaha. Because there's no difference between buying black market goods off a hobo vs. getting information off the internet. Right on Doulos!

[Katharsis]

Those odds are created by DFO... the LWL links are created by beat writers and bloggers... those writers/bloggers are given credit by DFO through their links.

The page with the links, and the work that went into finding them, is LWL's work, not the work of the beat writers. And it was that page and link structure that DFO took from LWL, not the general information that the original source posted.

[Katharsis]

Hahahaha. Because there's no difference between buying black market goods off a hobo vs. getting information off the internet. Right on Doulos!

You're splitting hairs here... doulos made a valid analogy.

[VintageVibe]

You're splitting hairs here... doulos made a valid analogy.

Hmmm... and here I was thinking it as a direct attack towards me in the sense that he is clearly pointing me out as a guy who works with criminals.

[Dakkster]

Hahahaha. Because there's no difference between buying black market goods off a hobo vs. getting information off the internet. Right on Doulos!

They are making money off of other people's work. That's stealing. Again, your attitude is the problem.

I posted my big post with comments on their open letter post and they didn't approve it, so I wrote a second comment telling them that they're spineless, unprofessional and lazy for not manning up about stealing content. I got this email response to that:

"I'm not approving comments that claim we steal all of our links because we don't. When you get your facts straight, you can post."

To which I responded with the following:

"You have a serious problem with reading comprehension. I never stated that it was all links. I stated that you steal content. That's an ambigious statement. Learn how to read and look up the word "literally" you spineless thief."

[doulos]

The posts in this thread prove that they won't lose anything really in terms of readers etc. The internet has changed the way people view theft and DFO knows it - hence why they can do what they do without any real consequences.

[mister_mcgoo]

what DFO has done is completely reprehensible and slimy but there is no technical theft involved in posting the same 3rd party links as another site does. LWL doesn't own those links to the 3rd party blogs, articles or twitter feeds anymore than DFO does. So while its slimy and the height of douchebuggery there's very little recourse LWL has other than what he's done it exposing them for what they are 'lazy jackals'.

Now if LWL is ever to find them plagiarizing his articles or linking directly to his content (i.e. embedding his content in their page without credit) than he would certainly have recourse, but as it stands now, sadly no.

it would behoove LWL to take this as a sign that he needs to make some updates to his site to prevent this kind of screen scraping...start dynamically generating image names with the starters on the fly, or track down DFO's IP address(es) and blacklist them. I commend all his hard work, but he needs to protect himself from the lazy douchebags of the web

[Katharsis]

what DFO has done is completely reprehensible and slimy but there is no technical theft involved in posting the same 3rd party links as another site does. LWL doesn't own those links to the 3rd party blogs, articles or twitter feeds anymore than DFO does. So while its slimy and the height of douchebuggery there's very little recourse LWL has other than what he's done it exposing them for what they are 'lazy jackals'.

Now if LWL is ever to find them plagiarizing his articles or linking directly to his content (i.e. embedding his content in their page without credit) than he would certainly have recourse, but as it stands now, sadly no.

it would behoove LWL to take this as a sign that he needs to make some updates to his site to prevent this kind of screen scraping...start dynamically generating image names with the starters on the fly, or track down DFO's IP address(es) and blacklist them. I commend all his hard work, but he needs to protect himself from the lazy douchebags of the web

Well said!

I feel I need to clarify that I don't actually think its stealing in a technical sense at all... just, as you put it, douchebaggery. And the smug "We're just better" response from the twats just makes it worse.