Toronto Drafting

[fantasyjunkie08]

Why is it that the everybody says that the Leafs don\'t Draft well? Considering the amount of draft picks they have had over the last decade I would say they have done admirably. Tonights lineup features Wellwood, Kaberle, White, Antropov, Ponkarovsky, Steen, Stajan, Kronwall & Tlusty.

I\'m not saying that these players are dominant, All I\'m saying is that they are servicable NHLers to compliment the rest of the team & I think that the leafs scouting dept. has done a great job at making strong picks in the later rounds with what they\'ve had.

[fzusher]

2002: Steen (24); still available: Cam Ward (25), Jarrett Stoll (36); Josh Harding (38)

2002: Stajan (57); still available: Jiri Hudler (58), Christensen (69), Filpulla (95), Paul Ranger (183)

2002: Ian White (191); still available: Maxime Talbot (234), Prucha (240), Dennis Wideman (241)

2001: Colaiacovo (17); still available: Colby Armstrong (21), Tim Gleason (23), Derek Roy (32)

2001: Pilar (39); still available: Tyutin (40), Mike Cammalerri (49, a pick traded by the Leafs), Pominville (55)

2001: B Bell (65); still available: Plekanec (71), Sharp (95), Emery (99), Ehrhoff (106), Schubert (127)

2001: Wellwood (134); still available: Bieksa (151), Zidlicky (176), J Jokinen (192), Huet (214), Svatos (227), Gerber (232)

2000: Boyes (24); still available: Justin Williams (28), Nik Kronwall (29), Bryzgalov (44), Vermette (45), Paul Martin (62)

2000: Tellquist (70); still available: Lubomir Visnovsky (118), Oullet (124), Liles (159), Lundquist (205), Matt Lombardi (215), Gaustad (220)

1999: Luka Cereda [who?] (24); still available: Havlat (26), Commodore (42), Chris Kelly (94), Ryan Miller (108), Erat (191), Zetterberg (210), Vrbata (212). The only Leaf draftee in 1999 to see NHL action was Pierre Hedin, who played in 3 games.

1998: Antropov (10); still available: Tanguay (12), Gagne (22), Van Ryn (26), Gomez (27), Cheechoo (29), Fisher (44), Ribeiro (45), Brad Richards (64), Erik Cole (71), Beauchein (75), Gionta (82)

1998: Ponikarovski (87); still available: Horcoff (99), Spacek (117), Samuelsson (145), Trent Hunter (150), A Markov (162), Kotalik (164), Datsyuk (171), Ryder (216)

Hindsight is 20/20, but if you read through the lists you start seeing teams who continually plucked top players the Leafs had passed on - Detroit, San Jose, Ottawa, Buffalo and the Habs are particularly recurring. The first four have been among the NHL\'s top at least since the lockout. Either those teams much surpass the Leafs in scouting, or in developing, or in both.

I think taking Luka Cereda over Martin Havlat is the winner there ...

[Dobber]

great post fzusher - Karma for your research.

I would also like to add:

- the Leafs passed on Cunti and Ruzicka this past summer and they may wind up regretting that.
- if you look at lineups all across the league, you can find better prospects in their lineups. Yes, Toronto boasts a few good players whom they drafted, but how many stars? Tonight\'s lineup features...? They played Montreal, who drafted Koivu, Komisarek, Kostitsyn, Price, Ryder, Higgins, Plekanec, Chipchura...this is just off the top of my head....did they draft Markov as well? I believe so, but you get the point. I would rather have Montreal\'s choice of draftees than Toronto\'s. And don\'t make me run down 20 other teams and their drafting record!

B)

[Pete]

Yaaa Mtl drafted Markov !

6th round, 162th overall in 1998 !

I know he didn\'t play yet but don\'t forget Ryan Mcdonagh !!!

[Sin Bin]

Karma for both fzusher & Dobber for the great info.

Hey Pete,

Yeah I liked that pick of Ryan Mcdonagh when I was watching the draft. So did the Blues Asst. GM./Director of Amatuer Scouting Jarmo Kekalainen. For those of you who didn\'t watch it (I believe, can\'t remember) the NHL Network followed the Scouting staff for the Blues through the time leading up to this years draft and at the draft itself. They were miked and us FH GM\'s (I know I did) would enjoy watching how it\'s really done in drafting strategy, acquiring assests (trading down and still getting the guy you wanted, not trading because the guy you really want is there, etc.), calling around to see what other GM\'s are willing to do.

They tried to move into the top 7 to get Voracek but when the price was either too high or GM\'s unwilling to move down to their spot (9th-McPhee) they then moved to the next guy on their list and knew that they could get him lower and traded their 9th overall to SJ and ended up acquiring the 13th, 18th and 26th overall as well as the 44th and a 2008 3rd rounder in all their moves. Those picks turned out to be at 13 was Lars Eller, 18 was Ian Cole (who earlier in the show Jarmo was really high on) and when Sutter called to make the deal they took it to get him. Then one scout, Bill Armstrong, was pushing for David Perron with the 26th pick (acquried from SJ through NJ) and they talked about it and agreed. You could see that Armstrong was pleased that they did as it must be very satisfying for a scout to get his player taken (and we already are seeing that it looks like he was right). It was amazing how good Jarmo was at knowing (I know it\'s his job) who was about to be picked.

One other cool thing about the show was when they had Cole in for an interview and have him do some activities the Strength and conditioning coach could tell by the way he did some keen bends that he needed to work a small muscle around his knee that would help his explosiveness.

Anyways, if you get a chance TiVo it and watch it. It was a very interesting look at the whole process.

[Pete]

Nice Sin Bin ! Karma for you !

So you,re a Blues fan ! Right ?

Wanna know what\'s your thought on Oshie and Berglund (drafted them in my keeper last summer).

Thanks !

[Sin Bin]

Actually no not a Blues fan (although I really like the front office they have running them now), I just love to watch hockey. Grew up a Pens fan (still am) in Johnstown (hence the avatar). Relocated to Northern VA over 10 years ago so have been to many Caps games (man is Ovechkin great to watch live and up close) and also like the Canucks.

I really like Oshie (I think he will be a real good player in the NHL) but I have to look at Berglund more as I haven\'t seen much or heard too much about him.

[Pete]

Ok, nice !

Oshie for PResident !

For Berglund, I don\'t know very much on him but I think Dobber had compare him with Jokinen and Sundin (upside)!

That\'s a nice comparison !

[narduch]

fzusher wrote:Hindsight is 20/20....
[/quote]

The main problem I have with this kind of post is that the Leafs aren\'t the only guilty team here. If a player that turns out to be a superstar gets passed over, chances are 29 other teams also passed him over.

That being said, I agree with the general sentiment that the Leafs blow at drafting and player development. Sure, they claim they are trying to rectify the problem, but it may be years before any real changes have any affect on the Leafs. Plus JFJ trading away draft picks doesn\'t help.

[rwthompson]

LINK

\"John Ferguson and the Maple Leafs have had 26 draft selections. Of those picks only Jiri Tlusty is with the parent club while three other choices are playing with the AHL Toronto Marlies.\"

And the one playing in the NHL is more interested in posting nude photos of himself.

Toronto Maple Leafs

2004 DRAFT PICKS CURRENT TEAM
90th overall G Justin Pogge Toronto Marlies - AHL
113th F Roman Kukumberg Nizhnekamsk Neftekhimk - Russia
157th F Dimitri Vorobiev Tolyatti Lada - Russia
187th F Robbie Earl Toronto Marlies - AHL
220th D Maxim Semenov Mytishi Khimik - Russia
252nd F Jan Steber Trinec Ocelari HC - Czech Republic
285th F Pierce Norton Providence College - NCAA

2005
21st G Tuukka Rask Providence Bruins - AHL (Boston Bruins)
82nd D Phil Oreskovic Columbia Inferno - ECHL
153rd F Alex Berry UMass-Amherst - NCAA
173rd F Johan Dahlberg Hudiksvalls HC - Sweden (Division 1)
216th D Anton Stralman Toronto Marlies - AHL
228th F Chad Rau Colorado College - NCAA

2006
13th F Jiri Tlusty Toronto Maple Leafs - NHL
44th F Nikolai Kulemin Magnitogorsk Metallurg - Russia
99th G James Reimer Red Deer Rebels - WHL
111th D Korbinian Holzer DEG Metro Stars - Germany
161st F Viktor Stalberg Vermont - NCAA
166th F Tyler Ruegsegger Denver - NCAA
180th F Leo Komarov Pelicans - Finland

2007
74th F Dale Mitchell Oshawa Generals - OHL
99th F Matt Frattin North Dakota - NCAA
104th F Ben Winnett Michigan - NCAA
134th D Juraj Mikus Slovakia U - 20 national team
164th F Christopher
DiDomenico Saint John - QMJHL
189th D Carl Gunnarsson Linkoping HC - Sweden (Elite)

Note: Both teams drafted Slovak players named Juraj Mikus. They are different players.

SOURCE: HOCKEYDB.COM

[fzusher]

Narduch - you are of course right re other teams passing on those players. That\'s why I noted at the end the fact that certain teams recur throughout the list - that\'s the indication that their is not a fluke.

A more telling stat, I admit, is how many draftees actually make it to the nhl, as rwthompson notes, though this doesn\'t factor the quality of the picked player, and though the list he/she posted is a bit unfair because some of these players are still developing, and with more and more players drafted at 18 and then going to the NCAA these days, you do have to wait 4 years for them to even make the AHL.

so I looked at earlier drafts.

2003 - 6 players drafted, only Jeremy Williams has seen nhl ice. Only Phoenix did worse (no NHLers)

2002 - 9 players drafted; Steen, Stajan, White, Kronwall and Jarkko Immonen saw NHL time. Only Chicago and Minnesota equaled the 5 NHLer tally, but Minny scored an elite player in PM Bouchard. Columbus beat them all with 7 nhlers, but only Nash with the 1st overall, and Tollefsen, are still in the nhl, and they had 13 picks overall. Good year for the Leafs.

2001 - 7 players out of 12 drafted made the nhl, but only Wellwood is currently an nhl regular with over 100 career games (Harrison, Colaiacovo, B Bell, and Pilar are in between the N and the A, Kondratiev and Mojsis are in Europe). Only 7 teams failed to land a 100-game nhler still in the nhl that year (columbus, detroit, devils, islanders, phoenix and tampa, washington). 12 teams managed more than 1 such player. Ottawa, btw, leads with 5 (Spezza, Emery, Schubert, Gleason and Laich)

2000 - out of 10 drafted players, only 4 made the nhl and only 2 - Boyes and Tellquist - are still there (the others are Kris Vernarsky and Jean Philippe Cote). However, 14 other teams have managed to draft at least 4 players to make the NHL. 15 other teams drafted at least 2 players still playing in the NHL. Dallas, Pittsburgh and Ottawa (again) lead with 4 current NHLers.

1999 - out of 9 drafted players, only Pierre Hedin made the nhl, for 3 games. The only other team to fail to draft somebody who played more than 3 NHL games that year was Montreal, who made no picks at all that year, not sure why.

1998 - out of 10 drafted players, 4 made the NHL, and only Antropov and Ponikarovski are still there (the others are Petr Svoboda and Allan Rourke). Only 5 teams failed to draft 4 players to reach the NHL that year - chicago, detroit, nashville, st. louis, vancouver. Only 7 teams did not draft at least 2 players still in the nhl, and with one of those - Detroit - Jiri Fischer would have made 2.

so even withcounting quality and just counting quantity of picks to turn into nhlers given sufficient time, the Leafs record 1998-2003 is good in one year, decent in another year or two, and abysmal in the remaining years.

[narduch]

fzusher, great post. That\'s a much better way to analyze a draft.

[Dobber]

Here\'s a good way to look at it: of the top 30 players in scoring over the last 20 years, how many of them were drafted by Toronto? Without actually doing all the legwork, I am willing to submit that the answer is ONE. Vinnie Damphousse. Whereas every other team other than Columbus can boast a number greater than that.