NHL\'s proposed FIGHTING BAN...

[Zorro]

It will never happen. I guess you can never say NEVER. But could you imagine the injuries if guys were allowed to just run around and not worry about suffering a consequence.. You would have players like Jarko Ruuuttuuu running around swinging his stick like a god-damn boomer-rang. Mike Riberio would suddenly be a POWER FORWARD. It would be total caos out there on the ice. You are right the American fans would be appauld. The Canadian fans would be totally disgusted. It just wouldn\'t fly, and you would be able to see the reaction of the fans by the ammount of empty seats in each of the buildings for each game.

It would be like basically taking the homerun out of baseball. If it doesn\'t fly 500 feet then its only a ground rule double. Sorry Vernon Wells, I know you hit it into the restaurant at the Rogers Center \"SKYDOME\", but sorry thats only a double..

Nobody likes seeing the ugly plays in hockey, Bertuzzi\'s pile driver, McSorely\'s 3-Wood to the head, Domi\'s sucker punch, well I enjoyed that one. Damn Ulf Samuelson, I hate you... But you can see what I am getting at. The ugly plays are what is giving hockey a bad rap. The fighters know their roles and get paid very well to do what they do. And the fans love it. It would be impossible for the NHL to take away fighting. Too much would have to be sacrificed.

[Fergie]

-Europians and wannabe-TV-ratings are taking over the NHL.

-US media are only showing Simon\'s stick, Tootoo\'s punch and Fedoruk on the ice without showing any highlight saves by Brodeur or a nice one-timer by Souray. And people who watch hockey once a year thinks that there are about four stretchers that are used per game.

-Why not take out bumping and crashing in NASCAR? Get a year suspension for crashing on another guy. Why would people see that oval race for several hours?

[lanky522]

The way I see it (as I think dobber said), there is violence in other sports... boxing, nascar, football, ultimate fighting, etc. The thing is, these sports sell out EVERY time they go on. I\'ve never seen a nascar event on t.v. that wasn\'t sold out. SO WHAT if people pay to see a crash? They fill the seats with those expectations. So what if boxing fans go to see a knock out? They fill the seats. Yes it is very sad when people get seriously injured in crashes, and in boxing fights (Ali has boxing induced shakes), but the players involved get into the business with that knowledge of possible injury.

It\'s not like they think that football, or hockey, or boxing are career paths they can have until they are 60. They know better. It\'s their choice to play a rough sport.

Fighting has been a VERY IMPORTANT part of hockey for ages. Here in the NHL you have such a mix of players, that you cannot have the same rules as the olympics, or the european leagues... Yes naslund, forsberg, won\'t often fight. That\'s because their hockey culture is different in Sweden. But to put these guys on the same ice with American and Canadian breed brawlers and power forwards and to hold everyone to the same rules is ludicrous. As an example think of putting a gangster in the same room as a british upperclass man. You can\'t expect the gangster to be able to live by the same standards as the brit (Yes I\'m saying that us North American players are the gangsters...)

Embrace the fighting. It will fill the seats, and get more favorable t.v. time. The sport will gain popularity quicker than any increased scoring ever will.

Fighting is a time honored tradition, with it\'s own set of unwritten rules. To take away something as important as policemen in a sport like this is just loony. The powers that be have cut back the fighting, and envoked harsher penalties for doing it, and in doing so have brought about numerous instances (over the course of just ONE season) that wouldn\'t have happened at all 20 years ago.

Bring back the encorcers and their roles, and you\'ll have less of these \"ugly\" incidents all over the internet news and the t.v.

[narduch]

Fighting serves absolutely no purpose in hockey. None whatsoever. The fact that the players who commit the worst non-fighting infractions are usually goons generally proves this. If the goons are only there because of the \'code\', you figure they would have the decency to leave the stars alone.

Also. Saying that fighting has been part of the game\'s history is ill-informed. In the 50\'s and 60\'s there was barely any fighting in the NHL (I realize there were bench clearing brawls though :P ). It was only in the 70\'s that fighting became prevalent. So we have a sport with over one hundred years of history, but only about 35 where fighting has been a supposedly important part of the game.

The other fallacy is that the end of fighting would cause chaos. This is a load of crap. Proper reffing and suspensions could put an end to vicious infractions. Other sports seem to be able to do this, why can\'t hockey?

Really, I wouldn\'t have a problem with the fighting if it wasn\'t so fake and contrived.

Post edited by: narduch, at: 2007/03/24 16:43

[Loki]

Interesting how so many protest fighting yet a \"sport\" like the Ultimate Fighting Championship, as well as several similar leagues, has gained so much popularity and has risen from obscurity.

The NHL\'s direction should turn toward enforcing the rules that already exist and consider levying significant fines for the cheap and flagrant stuff. I\'d rather see them lean a bit on some of the players who seem to constantly cross the line. I think we all know a few names of players whose role it appears is that of \"cheap shot artist\".

I find it amusing that we hear from everyone but the players union. It seems too logical to me that the union itself does not take the lead and stop the nonsense. They are supposed to be a brotherhood yet they continue to risk their own livelihood. Could they consider pulling the union card of repeated offenders?

[lanky522]

Well, just because Edmonton didn\'t join the nhl until 1979, I don\'t think you\'d find anyone who\'d say that they aren\'t an important part of the league. The same thing with helmets... Just because the nhl players didn\'t wear helmets back in the day, doesn\'t mean that they are any less important to the game now.

Just because fighting didn\'t start until 30 some years ago doesn\'t make it any less important to the current game...

In speaking of the \"code\" amoung fighters, I was talking about the \"code\" amoung fighters, to fight other fighters, and not pick on players that are not notoriously fighters. Obviously, not everyone lives by this code (since it is unwritten), but I think you\'ll find that the opinion of these guys that cheapshot and fight skilled players is very low. Darcy Tucker is one of these guys... if he ever fights a real fighter, he turtles up and goes into the fetal position... but if he gets the chance to fight a skilled guy, he does. The \"code\" that I speak of means that these guys that cheap shot face heavy punishment throughout the rest of the game (and every other time the teams meet).

All I\'m saying is that if you watch the NBA (or even look at the number of the NBA\'s technical fouls throughout the season), you\'ll see that suspensions and discipline does absolutely nothing as a deterant. Just because you face the death penalty for killing someone (in some jurisdictions) doesn\'t deter people from killing people. Just as harsh suspensions ultimately won\'t deter people from conducting acts of on ice violence.

I think you\'ll find that the best way to deter on ice violence is to allow fights where the perpitrator gets his ass beat and gets embarrased in front of a national audience.

[narduch]

lanky522 wrote:I think you\'ll find that the best way to deter on ice violence is to allow fights where the perpitrator gets his ass beat and gets embarrased in front of a national audience.[/quote]

Or, if you\'re Steve Moore, you get your neck broken because you held your own in the ensuing fight. Which is totally stupid.

The playoffs have no fighting. And at the same time, there isn\'t total lawlessness like the pro-fighting crowd would lead you to believe.

My main problem with fighting is that it is a uselss sideshow. If it really mattered, then I might have more respect for it. But when you have Cam Janssen stating that he would have fought Belak anyway, you really have to wonder what really is the point?

[lanky522]

Yes playoff hockey is intense without the fights... but do you really think that the players can play at that intensity throughout the ENTIRE 82 game season? I don\'t think so...

Another aspect of fighting is that it can break up the dulldrum of the puck just going back and forth. There\'s been numerous occasions where there\'s been a fight and the teams get motivated because of it... the crowd gets into the game, and it makes the game.

You take away fighting, and you\'ll have some dull games. Whether or not it\'s a show, you can\'t debate that it gets everyone pumped. People know that pro wrestling is a show, but that doesn\'t mean they sell any less seats in all the arena\'s the WWE visits...

[Zorro]

Come on Narduch give your head a shake dude. The whole thing\'s a show. Why do you think people pay money to see games live. To be entertained.

You pick one fight that has ever taken place in a hockey rink anywhere and give me an instance where nobody has stood up, yelled, or got excited. Please tell me... Just like Lanks said it gets the game rocking, it pumps teams up, it pumps the crowd up.

Nobody is saying that the Bertuzzi, Simon, McSorely incidents are acceptable, they are absolutely not in any way. They are a disgrace to the game. But fighting is part of the game. Fighting holds people accountable on the ice. Without fighting you wouldn\'t be able to control the injuries that would occur. If you don\'t like fighting then how can you like hitting in hockey? The only reason there are \'less\' fights in the playoffs is because the games mean so much and one PowerPlay can decide the game. The hitting picks up in the playoffs aswell. You might aswell turn off your tv and just look at the scores on the internet if you don\'t like fighting or hitting. Ping-pong comes to mind here. Talk to me Narduch.

[repenttokyo]

narduch wrote:

Or, if you\'re Steve Moore, you get your neck broken because you held your own in the ensuing fight. Which is totally stupid.[/quote]

what are you talking about? ensuing fight? he was sucker punched from behind...where exactly did he \"hold his own\"?

[narduch]

repenttokyo wrote:

what are you talking about? ensuing fight? he was sucker punched from behind...where exactly did he \"hold his own\"?

Earlier in the game, Moore fought one of the Canucks goons. But Moore didn\'t get his ass kicked. That\'s why Bertuzzi was pissed and came after him. The losers didn\'t feel the retribution was enough.

Post edited by: narduch, at: 2007/03/27 18:19

[narduch]

Zorro wrote:

Come on Narduch give your head a shake dude...

Just like Lanks said it gets the game rocking, it pumps teams up, it pumps the crowd up.

Nobody is saying that the Bertuzzi, Simon, McSorely incidents are acceptable, they are absolutely not in any way. They are a disgrace to the game. But fighting is part of the game. Fighting holds people accountable on the ice. Without fighting you wouldn\'t be able to control the injuries that would occur. If you don\'t like fighting then how can you like hitting in hockey? The only reason there are \'less\' fights in the playoffs is because the games mean so much and one PowerPlay can decide the game. The hitting picks up in the playoffs aswell. You might aswell turn off your tv and just look at the scores on the internet if you don\'t like fighting or hitting. Ping-pong comes to mind here. Talk to me Narduch.

Ok, I\'ll give my head a shake when you stop drinking the kool aid. hmy:

The argument that fighting gets the fans rocking is fleeting. Cheerleaders get the game rocking too. So does putting up \'Make Noise\' on the scoreboard. Or playing loud music between plays. If the game needs meaningless things to pump up its fans, that\'s a sad indictment on how the game can\'t stand on its own merits.

Fighting is a pathetic sideshow. That\'s the bottom line. It\'s too bad that too many of us have it ingrained in our brains that its necessary.

[lanky522]

Wow man, there\'s no way that you can clear-headedly compare cheerleaders to a hockey fight in terms of pumping up the crowd... Having been to many live games where cheerleaders are \"pumping up the crowd,\" (both college and professional), I can say that no one even watches the cheerleaders...

No one cares about them... If anything they just make fun of the male cheerleaders, and that\'s it. On the other hand, there is not anyone in the crowd in a hockey who just talks to their neighbor while a fight goes on. Everyone watches the fights. I\'ve seen people run from the snack area back to the arena to watch a fight.

Plain and simple fights pump everyone up. Whether they are a \"show\" or not is inconsiquential in this case.

[mamon]

Colin Campbell says yes.
Gary Bettman says no.

They should put on some skates and have a fight over it.

[lanky522]

HAHAHAHA! I agree. What an awesome idea... :lol: