**Heatley 4 Hossa (Dobber help??)* *

[Antrocop]

Standard H2H scoring....G, A, PIM, plus minus, and PPP.

I\'d get Hossa and Rafalski or (B.Campbell, my choice)...and a late round rookie pick next year for Heatley + O\'Sullivan .

Here\'s my squad.

C- Backstrom (rookie keeper)
C- Malkin
LW - Healtey
LW - Vanek
RW - Lupul
RW - Mueller (Rookie Keeper)
D - Phaneuf
D - Niedermayer
D - Vishovsky
D - Tyutin

G - Lundqvist
G - C.Anderson/Toskala/LeClaire


My keepers would then be.......Malkin, Vanek, Hossa, Phaneuf and Lundqvist heading into next year.

Is the downgrade from Heatley to Hossa longterm, worth the addition of Rafalski (who\'d replace Tyutin) this season?

Input needed.........gotta make this decision over the holidays, and I\'m not sure whether to pull the trigger or not.


Karma for any/all input.......thanks in advance.

[Shoeless]

I don\'t see O\'Sully in your roster. Anyway do you have a shot at winning it this year?

[juwan_carlos]

I like the deal for you - and would do it with Rafalski not Campbell.

It is a hit to your keepers though, but you could keep Backstrom as well? I guess you\'d be keeping two centres though which isn\'t ideal...

[Antrocop]

Shoeless wrote:

I don\'t see O\'Sully in your roster. Anyway do you have a shot at winning it this year?

O\'Sullivan\'s currently one of my bench players.......only reason he\'s not listed.

I missed setting my lineup a couple weeks, so I\'m not right in the thick of things right now.....but with my lineup, I should be a top 4 team when it\'s all said an done.

I like the deal for you - and would do it with Rafalski not Campbell.

That was my initial thought as well......but then I looked more closely at the numbers, and Campbell\'s on pace for 60 points himself, and is 7 years younger. (meaning he might be a keeper for some teams, and a more valuable trade chip down the road)

It is a hit to your keepers though, but you could keep Backstrom as well? I guess you\'d be keeping two centres though which isn\'t ideal...

We get 5 main keepers.......and we hold onto rookie draft picks for 3 seasons......in my farm system I have Backstrom, Mueller, Berglund, Kulemin, and Backlund.

5 keepers after this deal, would be Malkin, Hossa, Ludqvist, Phaneuf, and Vanek.

Seems in his latest ranking, Dobber actually has Hossa ranked higher than Heatley for keeper value......thoughts?

[Fighting_Emu]

Id take it. Heatley and Hossa are almost interchangable in terms of skill level and Hossa gets the edge playing on a stacked dertroit team. Osully could make you live to regret it but its not like you\'re getting chopped liver back- we\'re talking about a superstar defenseman. Im of the mind Osully will be more of a 70 pt type player with upside than an absolute superstar- just my opinion.

Also I may be the minority but Id give a lot of thought to Campbell. If the guy is a keeper Id almost certainly go soupy- otherwise Rafalskis your guy...

[Antrocop]

Thanks Emu!

I\'ve also been given the option of swapping O\'Sullivan out of the deal, and moving Lupul into his place.....(im going to counter with Horcoff in, instead)

As for Rafalski/Campbell......I like Rafalski more this year, and wouldn\'t be keeping either, but I\'m thinking in terms of trade value, Campbell likely having the more value to another team as a keeper.


Really having a tough time deciding though.....Heatley\'s been the top player in fantasy hockey 2 of the last 3 years, so I hate to sell him when his value\'s at it\'s lowest.....but Hossa + Rafalski/Campbell seems like nearly full value anyway?

Any more insight, would be greatly appreciated.....as I think this might be a deal I have a hard time pulling the trigger on.

[LOUENIGMA]

well, its kinda of a toss up. who says Hossa will re-sign with the wings anyways?
id keep heatley as he is younger.

[ultrawhiteness]

i would do this, no problem.

as emu and some of the other guys have said, hossa and heatley are pretty close. if anything, there are teams that hossa could sign with next year where he could get more points than he is now with detroit.

getting the defenceman for your big push this year makes it an easy YES for me. and o\'sully is pretty much useless in a keep 5 league (well, for this season anyway).

[Antrocop]

ultrawhiteness wrote:

i would do this, no problem.

as emu and some of the other guys have said, hossa and heatley are pretty close. if anything, there are teams that hossa could sign with next year where he could get more points than he is now with detroit.

getting the defenceman for your big push this year makes it an easy YES for me. and o\'sully is pretty much useless in a keep 5 league (well, for this season anyway).

Cheers!

Would you take Rafalski or Campbell?

[Enapai]

Antrocop-

There is only 2 reasons in my book for trading in fantasy sports:

1. To help finish 1st.
2. To build a better franchise.

Seeing as you only keep 5 guys and your picks for 3 seasons, you cannot get a much better keeper group than Malkin, Heatley, Vanek, Phanuef, and Lundy. Hence, you clearly are not considering this trade for long term improvement of your franchise.

In keeping with my philosophy on trading, the only real reason to consider this move if whether it will help you win now. Worries about where Hossa will sign, or age (or trade value) of Rafalski vs Campbell should only be of minimal consideration as clearly both would be upgrades on your current defense but neither is a keeper for you. If your goal is to win this season, then I can\'t see why you would go trading either during the season. Since you don\'t intend to keep either beyond this season, the only way you could improve you team long term is to trade Campbell/Rafalski for a draft pick, or package them with someone like Vanek for to a team that really only has 4 keepers, for a top stud.

With that said, this move clearly helps get you closer to winning this year in my mind. Hossa and Heatley are basically a push. Either Rafalski or Campbell worth much more than O\'Sullivan to you this season.

Personally, I would play off the great stretch Lupal is having and try to sub him in for O\'Sully as he is a RW (you are getting a RW) and in many leagues O\'Sully has LW dual status.

As an aside, I would pick Campbell over Rafalski in this particular case. I think production wise they are about the same. My main reasoning is that in the H2H format, I always try to avoid having too many guys from the same team. There will come a match up where having an extra game (from guys on different squads) could come in handy.

Good luck.

[Antrocop]

Enapai, thanks for the well thought out, detailed response.....a few questions/points I\'d like to ask/add.


Enapai wrote:

Antrocop-

There is only 2 reasons in my book for trading in fantasy sports:

1. To help finish 1st.
2. To build a better franchise.

Seeing as you only keep 5 guys and your picks for 3 seasons, you cannot get a much better keeper group than Malkin, Heatley, Vanek, Phanuef, and Lundy. Hence, you clearly are not considering this trade for long term improvement of your franchise.

You\'re 100% right, which is why although I know Hossa/Campbell is better value than Heatley, I\'m having a hard time pulling the trigger.......99% of my deals revolve around improving my keepers, and this would be straying a bit from my normal m.o.

In keeping with my philosophy on trading, the only real reason to consider this move if whether it will help you win now. Worries about where Hossa will sign, or age (or trade value) of Rafalski vs Campbell should only be of minimal consideration as clearly both would be upgrades on your current defense but neither is a keeper for you. If your goal is to win this season, then I can\'t see why you would go trading either during the season. Since you don\'t intend to keep either beyond this season, the only way you could improve you team long term is to trade Campbell/Rafalski for a draft pick, or package them with someone like Vanek for to a team that really only has 4 keepers, for a top stud.

My philosophie is also to try and make the best use of assets as I can........looking around the league I see that there are numerous teams that would likely want to keep a player of Campbell\'s ilk, when the times comes around next offseason.........so my thinking is I could either trade him for a slight downgrade at defense at the deadline (and acquire future picks) or play him all year, then move him in the offseason for a pick, prior to the keeper deadline.

I should also add, I\'d also be acquiring the rookie rights to Lars Eller in this deal......and would own them for the next 3 years.

With that said, this move clearly helps get you closer to winning this year in my mind. Hossa and Heatley are basically a push. Either Rafalski or Campbell worth much more than O\'Sullivan to you this season.

What I\'m having a hard time with, is whether Hossa and Healtey are really a push........Heats was the best player in fantasy hockey 2 of the last 3 years, and despite a slow start, is actually putting up very similar numbers to Hossa now. That said, maybe Hossa\'s poor start in ATL last year, is tainting my opinion of him, and I\'m not giving him his full credit.

I think RW is harder to fill than LW (for me anyway)......so he does get some additional value there.

Personally, I would play off the great stretch Lupal is having and try to sub him in for O\'Sully as he is a RW (you are getting a RW) and in many leagues O\'Sully has LW dual status.

I\'m able to do this, so if all else fails, that\'s exactly what I\'ll do........currently I\'m trying to swap Horcoff into the deal, allowing me to hold both O\'Sullivan and Lupul.

As an aside, I would pick Campbell over Rafalski in this particular case. I think production wise they are about the same. My main reasoning is that in the H2H format, I always try to avoid having too many guys from the same team. There will come a match up where having an extra game (from guys on different squads) could come in handy.

Good luck.

I was leaning towards Campbell, but hadn\'t thought about that aspect of it......I think I\'ll definitely take him, should I be able to hammer out a deal.


Thanks again for your insight, and any additional input would be greatly appreciated.

[ColinM77]

The part about how you said campbell will be a good trading chip down the road does not make too much sense because he would not be one of your keepers am I correct? Unless you were planning on making this trade then trading Campbell in this season to try and increase. I would probably do it i like hossa more with Detroit than Heatley with Ottawa, you never know if Hossa will resign but if Detroit win the cup this year I think Hossa will most definately sign on for more years in Detroit. Just my opinion.

[SpaceScape]

I like it. As others have said, Heatley and Hossa are almost equal, and the age difference is only 2 years. Heatley has usually taken more penalties though and is more of a sure thing, but you can\'t really go wrong with either one.

The only reason why I\'d consider not to do this is the fact that there are so few stud left wingers. But then again, adding Cambpell (I, too, prefer him over Rafalski) would benefit you greatly this year. As you said, you can (and acutally should) trade him later on since you\'re not going to keep him.

Oh, and if that Horcoff offer goes through, even better. If not, give Lupul instead of O\'Sullivan (especially if O\'Sullivan has LW eligibility in your league).

If you think you have a shot at winning this year, definitely do this.

[Antrocop]

ColinM77 wrote:

The part about how you said campbell will be a good trading chip down the road does not make too much sense because he would not be one of your keepers am I correct? Unless you were planning on making this trade then trading Campbell in this season to try and increase. I would probably do it i like hossa more with Detroit than Heatley with Ottawa, you never know if Hossa will resign but if Detroit win the cup this year I think Hossa will most definately sign on for more years in Detroit. Just my opinion.

The thought was that Campbell would be a more valuable trading chip down the road, if I wanted to either (a) Upgrade one of my keepers, or (b) get a slightly lower teir defenseman, while stocking piling a draft pick or two, and (c) holding him all year, then trading him in the offseason before the keeper deadline.

[Shoeless]

Well after seeing that you can swap Lupul in for O\'Sully or maybe even Horcoff, you have my full support for the deal. I think the kicker in this is Campbell - you made not keep him but for a top 4 team to add such a player that fills a gap for a run at the H2H is definitely a good thing. Chicago has the sweetass schedule along about H2H playoff time this year.

I watched Hossa\'s last game - he made Datsyuk that game - he was incredible - completely running over guys, getting to pucks when no one else could - I would have no problem taking him as close to an equal of Heater\'s.