AM34 running away with the Hart

[Axeman33]

This is just my opinion based on ZERO facts but even if Matthews hits 70 goals, I dont think he wins the Hart. I think he gets more votes than he would have had he NOT hit the 70, but I still believe this is MacKinnon's to lose no matter what anyone else is doing.

As I say, just my opinion, which has certainly been wrong many times in the past.

[Invictus]

As I say, just my opinion, which has certainly been wrong many times in the past.

This opinion is wrong D:

[Axeman33]

This opinion is wrong D:

Not yet it's not.

[RizzeeDizzee]

I guess if someone is wrong about not being wrong, that sort of fits them saying they're prone to being wrong? Either that's really deep, or I'm just drilling down too much. Or both.

[Belexus75]

Gotta say I disagree with you. I get the impression you're watching that stat sheet a lot more than you're watching actual AM34 games otherwise you wouldn't be saying this stuff.

AM34 is a solid, solid 2 way player, big body, knows how to use it, knows how to hold onto the puck and control possession, decent passer - but why pass it when you're the best shooter in the world? Just cause he's a godly sniper, doesn't mean he's not good at other stuff.

AM34 is not Hull/Bure/Ovie who are the type of one dimensional WINGERS you are talking about...

BINGO, this been my impression for a while now.

And i think everybody is allowed their opinion and i have no issue with opinions being completely different than mine or majority, thats why we have forums. But trying to prove others wrong by showing bunch of numbers and nothing else is just wrong imo but hey...thats me.

[LawMan]

To be fair I'd put AM34 more toward the all-round player bucket than the one-dimensional goal scorer bucket. For starters he's a Center instead of a winger so you've gotta have some dimension of an all-round game to be good at that position, and as mentioned above he's a solid defensive player too.

Agree with this. It seems the phrase "one-dimensional" is being used to mean two different things.
In my view. "one-dimensional" typically refers to a star forward who is excellent offensively but has a below average defensive game. Typically reserved for wingers.. Ovechkin is a good example, amazing scorer but never great defensively. If someone calls Matthews "one-dimensional" to mean his defensive game is poor I wholly disagree.
If you say Matthews is "one-dimensional" offensively, because he is a shoot first sniper there is some merit to that argument. If we categorize: MacKinnon, Kucherov, McDavid and Matthews as the "Big-4" then Matthews is certainly the most shooter focused, with the fewest assists, making his game more "one-dimensional" than the other 3. However I would counter argue that because Matthews is such a good shooter he SHOULD should first, and his offensive play is dicatated by his skill set. The reason the other 3 shoot less is because they do not have Matthews' sniper skills.

Matthews is an excellent all-round hockey player (strong defensive game) whose offensive game is shoot first, this is a-typical for a superstar centre (who are generally thought of as carry the puck and pass first).
I personally think 70 Goals is worth more than 130P (approximately 135P). I also think Matthews falls a few goals short of that and MacKinnon gets his first Hart.

[2014olympicgold]

Agree with this. It seems the phrase "one-dimensional" is being used to mean two different things.
In my view. "one-dimensional" typically refers to a star forward who is excellent offensively but has a below average defensive game. Typically reserved for wingers.. Ovechkin is a good example, amazing scorer but never great defensively. If someone calls Matthews "one-dimensional" to mean his defensive game is poor I wholly disagree.
If you say Matthews is "one-dimensional" offensively, because he is a shoot first sniper there is some merit to that argument. If we categorize: MacKinnon, Kucherov, McDavid and Matthews as the "Big-4" then Matthews is certainly the most shooter focused, with the fewest assists, making his game more "one-dimensional" than the other 3. However I would counter argue that because Matthews is such a good shooter he SHOULD should first, and his offensive play is dicatated by his skill set. The reason the other 3 shoot less is because they do not have Matthews' sniper skills.

Matthews is an excellent all-round hockey player (strong defensive game) whose offensive game is shoot first, this is a-typical for a superstar centre (who are generally thought of as carry the puck and pass first).
I personally think 70 Goals is worth more than 130P (approximately 135P). I also think Matthews falls a few goals short of that and MacKinnon gets his first Hart.

Would McDavid be "one-dimensional" in this concept as a pass first dimension? McDavid has less goals than Matthews has assists.

[LawMan]

Would McDavid be "one-dimensional" in this concept as a pass first dimension? McDavid has less goals than Matthews has assists.

Essentially yes. McDavid's skills dictate a pass first play which results in his offensive game being pass-first and high assists.
To be clear I do not think calling either Matthews or McDavid "one-dimensional" is accurate as they are both above average defensively. But since they are stars any defensive error they make is highlited and scrutinized 100x over.

[2014olympicgold]

Essentially yes. McDavid's skills dictate a pass first play which results in his offensive game being pass-first and high assists.
To be clear I do not think calling either Matthews or McDavid "one-dimensional" is accurate as they are both above average defensively. But since they are stars any defensive error they make is highlited and scrutinized 100x over.

Ya I was kind of just stirring the point a bit sorry lol! I think forwards who are 1 dimensional just don't get the label stars. Even Ovi had a physical element that is a dimension to his game.

Oh well, we're all arguing nothing at this point lol!

[Axeman33]

Didn't McDavid have 64 goals last year? Maybe this year he's showing people he's far from one dimensional by doing the assist thing and not the goal thing.

[2014olympicgold]

Didn't McDavid have 64 goals last year? Maybe this year he's showing people he's far from one dimensional by doing the assist thing and not the goal thing.

Ya but this is a yearly award!

[RizzeeDizzee]

BINGO, this been my impression for a while now.

And i think everybody is allowed their opinion and i have no issue with opinions being completely different than mine or majority, thats why we have forums. But trying to prove others wrong by showing bunch of numbers and nothing else is just wrong imo but hey...thats me.

My main issue was your assertion that it was "widely known" he was a strong defensive player. Perhaps he is sound defensively, but "widely known?" That might be a stretch is what I was mainly taking issue with. But people have chimed in supporting his defensive acumen, so I am fully prepared to accept that my view either was at best a differing opinion, or at worst one that was formed without fully understanding the situation.

[RizzeeDizzee]

Didn't McDavid have 64 goals last year? Maybe this year he's showing people he's far from one dimensional by doing the assist thing and not the goal thing.

Let's also not forget that if McDavid reaches 100 assists, it'd be the first time that's happened since 1990-91. Yes, the last time anyone got 70 goals was only two seasons later, but there's also the reality that just two different forwards (plus one defenseman....wow Bobby Orr!) have ever recorded 100 assists, whereas by my count eight different forwards have tallied 70+ goals. But interestingly the total number of instances of 70+ goal seasons is 14, versus 13 instances for 100+ assists, so they've happened just as rarely. More food for thought to chew on.

[Axeman33]

Ya but this is a yearly award!

And he's in the running to win it again this year even scoring 35 less goals this season compared to last.

[Feenom]

Gotta say I disagree with you. I get the impression you're watching that stat sheet a lot more than you're watching actual AM34 games otherwise you wouldn't be saying this stuff.

AM34 is a solid, solid 2 way player, big body, knows how to use it, knows how to hold onto the puck and control possession, decent passer - but why pass it when you're the best shooter in the world? Just cause he's a godly sniper, doesn't mean he's not good at other stuff.

AM34 is not Hull/Bure/Ovie who are the type of one dimensional WINGERS you are talking about...

Watching AM play I would have to agree with blayze. Last year I put AM down for his less than stellar D zone play but blayze (to his credit) stuck up for him and told me to play the long game with him. He has vastly improved his defensive responsibilities and for a potential 70 goal scorer, that is very impressive. Now all that Selke talk is a bit premature but you never know. And I hope he can lead his team in the playoffs. Still many questions to be answered by AM.