Its not me..its you..right? (Faber)

[finnys_fanatsy]

so OGM has young Brock Faber. i've expressed interest. nothing serious, hes made comments about how he thinks BF is the next coming of Makar/Hughes.

he comes back to me today says hes had some other GMs poking at him and if i want to take a stab, go for it. So i ask him what kind of compensation hes looking for and to replay with some names hed take as a trade. Now i know full well hes gonna come back with my top end guys, hes notoriously overpriced his players for seasons, and if you've expressed any interest whatsoever that automatically adds a 10% premium. (we haven't done many deals as a result).

as expected hes come back with, Stuz, Byfield, LHughes, Brady and Raymond (who i was able to acquire from him along with Jarvis for Debrincat, so i suspect hes feeling some remorse there).

So shame on me for asking. i knew better than to ask....but this IS outta line for Faber yes? its not me..its all him...?

[RizzeeDizzee]

Faber is on pace to have the highest TOI for a rookie d-man since TOI started being tracked in 1997-98. But the other rookie d-men who were highest include the likes of Doughty and Keith, so if we're looking at upside it might be them, rather than a scoring stud. Don't mortgage the farm to get him.

[Axeman33]

I'd trade Raymond for him but that's as far as I'd go from that list.

[jman]

I'd consider Raymond but I'm noy sold on it. Actually, looking at your team, I'd probably be okay moving Raymond for him as your in pretty good shape on left side and could use a bit of a boost on D.

[finnys_fanatsy]

a couple of Raymonds..interesting. there's a part of me that says "FU..you got roasted after that trade, now you wanna redoux..FU!"

BUUUUT..i am LW heavy, and BF is intriguing.

[jman]

Don’t let that be the reason you don’t do it if you want to do it. Look at it as you dealt the Cat for Jarvis and Faber. However, right now I feel like Raymond is outplaying the Cat…

[finnys_fanatsy]

i had a look back at Fabers points and he really hasnt ever put up points..i backed off.

[skinnypete88]

I would attribute more value to what he has done this season than his last three NCAA seasons (although jumping to a 0.71 pts/g pace after two seasons of 0.44 is not nothing).

With Addison gone and Spurgeon in and out of injury, who is challenging him for that role on the powerplay? Certainly no one on the current roster and Minnesota doesn't have a prospect defenseman coming that is an obvious heir apparent.

Since your league counts PPA and D PTS I think Faber holds a lot of value here. What are the totals so far for both Faber and Raymond in your league? Assuming a ppp from Faber contributes in three categories and all categories are worth a point including +/-, Faber has more points than Raymond and that is with 0 ppp in his first 20 games when he didn't have the role.

I would make that deal.

i had a look back at Fabers points and he really hasnt ever put up points..i backed off.

[finnys_fanatsy]

you guys really got my head turnin now.

are teh stars just perfectly aligned for Faber right now and a regression is coming when Spurg comes back in 24-25?

for gits and shiggles i threw him an offer of Jarvis for Faber with a rejection. (Jarvis is actually a better player overall, only minus a couple of points)

snip of ESPN stats attached

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also consider this would be a long play scenario as im nowhere near contending whereas he is in 4th

[TheDard]

you guys really got my head turnin now.

are teh stars just perfectly aligned for Faber right now and a regression is coming when Spurg comes back in 24-25?

for gits and shiggles i threw him an offer of Jarvis for Faber with a rejection. (Jarvis is actually a better player overall, only minus a couple of points)

snip of ESPN stats attached

Untitled.jpg

also consider this would be a long play scenario as im nowhere near contending whereas he is in 4th

I think if you we were willing to offer Jarvis, why not offer him Raymond?
Quick breakdown between Jarvis & Raymond

Goals: J / Assists: R / Pts: R / +/-: J / PIMS: R / PPA: R / PPG: J They are even, both lead in 3 of your Cats in a quick comparison to each other.

Spurgeon doesn't come back next season and challenge Faber. He would need to beat him down to replace what this young guy has done this season. Heck better chance that Spurgeon actually helps Faber more than hurts his production.

[finnys_fanatsy]

Shot an offer of RayRay for Faber (plus a DP swap to be greedy). Says he’s been reading on Faber and now he’s elite and Raymond is just ok.

I’m out.

Thx all tho. Now I know…it’s not me, it’s you.

[Tiramisu]

Sorry im going to try again- my first post was too long winded and rambly- lol!

I see two comparable that come to.mind:

Ryan Suter- a stupendously talented defensive defenseman who was probably not an elite offensive talent but often got those results anyways just based on favorable deployment and the sheer amount of playing time he got. Minnesota seems to avoid one dimensional dmen and then when they do draft them.they don't have much luck either OR they just shuffle them off like addisson- lol! It seems to be a trend there that the solid, responsible two way types end up at the top of the pp heap and the thing is- once you're there- you're as safe a bet as anyone else for high end production. I don't think Faber was a high callibre offensive weapon coming into this season but I think him showing he can handle those minutes means he gets a longer leash and hes probably a lot less im danger of falling off the map entirely than I would have thought. Suter was a solid dman who you could on for anywhere between 40 and 65- lol! I think ultimately thats Fabers range in his prime- i could be wrong though.

Seider- Or maybe more aptly the "Seider Effect" might come into play here. In Seiders rookie year- most poolies spent the season wondering what to with this kid- blip on the radar? Sell high? Or was he underrated at the draft? A coup by Stevie Y? It wasn't until the dust settled at 50 points and then all the guides/zines/podcasts came out and confirmed that everything looked mostly repeatable that his value went through the roof. My only point here is that those offers look laughable now- and I believe they are outside of the Raymond one ftr- but I just really think that if this production holds Faber will be all but unattainable next season. For the record I'm not convinced Seider is an elite Dman either- more like a "very good" one who cashed in on Detroit lack of options at the time. Maybe im wrong- on both counts- but I just think thats where his trade alue is headed whether its warranted or not.

Trying to keep this short so ill end on this- a few others have said Raymond might make sense and im inclined to agree. IF you need defense they're actually similar assets and in that case I almost always go for the dman. Faber looks like he's going to have an extremely safe floor as well- id say 40 with great peripherals/counting stats on account of his extreme workload/icetime. If that has value in your league it really mitigates the risk here. I do think Raymond has a relatively safe floor as well but there have been some bumps along the road with his development that make me at least question if he'll ever hit his projected upside. I think although less highly touted Faber represents about the same on defense and to his credit the organization is absolutely head over heels on his play- lol!

Who knows though- if his initial.comparison was Hughes/Makar id be worried. I think his floor is safe and hes got a real got shot at being a top 20-30 sort of guy - but I just can't envision a universe where hes in the top three.

Nice post- great topic!!

[finnys_fanatsy]

Shot an offer of RayRay for Faber (plus a DP swap to be greedy). Says he’s been reading on Faber and now he’s elite and Raymond is just ok.

I’m out.

Thx all tho. Now I know…it’s not me, it’s you.

Should elaborate, I shot the offer over he rejected it. I’m not paying anything more at this point. If anything I’ll wait until the hype train rolls to a stop and maybe revisit.

[Belexus75]

a couple of Raymonds..interesting. there's a part of me that says "FU..you got roasted after that trade, now you wanna redoux..FU!"

BUUUUT..i am LW heavy, and BF is intriguing.

be honest with yourself and reverse the situation, then ask yourself what you would like for him...would you really take less than likes of Raymond? i dont think you would. This guy has upside and has great season, if he is going to trade him he will want a lot and he should, otherwise he should see what he can be on his own team and not give him away for nothing. I don think Raymond or Byfield is unreasonable ask ..i would not do it myself but i dont think its unreasonable.

[Tiramisu]

be honest with yourself and reverse the situation, then ask yourself what you would like for him...would you really take less than likes of Raymond? i dont think you would. This guy has upside and has great season, if he is going to trade him he will want a lot and he should, otherwise he should see what he can be on his own team and not give him away for nothing. I don think Raymond or Byfield is unreasonable ask ..i would not do it myself but i dont think its unreasonable.

I dont think Raymond is a mistake and id personally explore that route- although it sounds like even thats evaporated- but Byfield would 100% be a mistake. As poolies its easy to just look at the production for players but I listen to a lot of scouching in my off time and I put a lot of stock into what he says- probably.more than even my own "eye tests". Hes absolutely over the moon from the many eye tests hes seen on Byfield so far- just giddy really. He has so.much in common with a player like Kopitar and seems to be learning all the right lessons on how to apply that package of skill and size from playing with him. I really think he could have an even better career offensively if and when LA turns to a more aggressive style with the new crop of kids coming up- but even if you were just getting the same production I wouldn't trade that for Faber.

The point here isn't that Faber really is in that Makar/Hughes tier- its that hes probably done enough AND has a safe enough floor that you could move a guy like Raymond for him. I've got Byfield in a much higher tier than Raymond personally amyways- guess thats all im saying...