Can a defensemen still win the Hart Trophy?

[Canucks_fan18]

Hasn't happened since Pronger 1999/2000. It's really early and a lot can change but watching the Canucks game's I keep on hearing how Petterson is the front runner for the Hart Trophy but to be honest I feel Quinn Hughes has been by far our best player. He's now tied with points, I don't think he continues to stay that high but why can't a D win the Hart. Isn't the trophy about the most important player to your team, well D who play the most aside from the goalie certainly fit that bill.

[2014olympicgold]

With the group of forwards out there I don't think so. You would need a Taylor Hall like yr where the dman DRAGS the team into the playoffs with the forward group doing absolutely nothing. If SJS made the playoffs last yr, you might have seen Karlsson win it, if McDavid didn't go nuclear.

So the top dman are:
QHughes, Makar, Seider, Dahlin, McAvoy, Josi, Karlsson? I'm sure you can add/remove a few there.

But every Dman has a forward that would likely get more votes than them besides Dahlin, Josi and Seider. And those guys aren't getting 90-100pts.

You need a dman to go 2022-23 Karlsson, you need a forward/center to not to go nuts, and you need a McDavid injury/under-performance yr.

Hughes has almost that, but Pettersson is likely to get more votes than him.

[PenguinHunter]

I agree with you fully... why can't a D win the Hart.
I fully think they should be.

But I don't think it will ever happen unless a D leads the league in scoring.
Defense isn't 'sexy' to the people who vote.
It almost seems like there are too many people who have a vote that aren't experienced enough in hockey to understand the roles fully.

[dejeanneret]

Could. Should. But I think it'll be a very, very difficult trick to pull these days. Think there are many who vote on this stuff who default to the position of "that's what the Norris is for."

Goalies face a similar issue in light of the Vezina, although there's some more recency there with Price in the mid-2010's.

[random-d]

They could solve this problem by just giving the Norris trophy to the best DEFENSEman (i.e. Most valuable dman) and having a separate trophy for the highest scoring dman. As it is, the Norris trophy is basically just the Richard trophy for defensemen.

[Canucks_fan18]

Could. Should. But I think it'll be a very, very difficult trick to pull these days. Think there are many who vote on this stuff who default to the position of "that's what the Norris is for."

Goalies face a similar issue in light of the Vezina, although there's some more recency there with Price in the mid-2010's.

I hate that argument because it's not the definition of the trophy. I mean let's be honest the Rocket and Art are forward only trophy's as well. That's not even including the Selke.

[tweetdrivr]

They could solve this problem by just giving the Norris trophy to the best DEFENSEman (i.e. Most valuable dman) and having a separate trophy for the highest scoring dman. As it is, the Norris trophy is basically just the Richard trophy for defensemen.

I like this. The Norris and the Orr trophies?

[Pengwin7]

If a D leads the NHL in scoring and his team makes the playoffs... and his +/- is in the black he WILL win the Hart.
The voters would get that right.

I think if a D were to score 100pts (same stuff as above incl.) and highest F was <115... I also think the D would win the Hart.
Such might be the case with Quinn Hughes and Elias Pettersson.


Quinn Hughes is definitely MVP of the NHL through last night's GP.

[LawMan]

Agreed with most everything said above.
1. Since the Norris and Vezina exist the default assumption is that the Hart goes to a F.
2. Forwards are the "sexiest" players and the Hart winner is almost always a top-3 Point getting Forward.
3. Recently there have been incredible point producing Fs and not enough comparable D-seasons, over the last decade I do not think any D-man was robbed of the Hart.

So the deck is stacked against a D or G winning it.
That being said I agree with Pengwin a D who got his team to the playoffs, and was top-3 in scoring should get strong consideration for the Hart.
A D-man winning the Art Ross should basically be a shoe-on for the Hart, unless the rest of his play was a disaster or his team was a disaster.

[Canucks_fan18]

I agree that no one's been robbed of it lately but it's not even discussed from what I can tell and from early season award prediction articles as a possibility. This likely won't hold but if the season would end today don't you think Quinn Hughes is the Hart winner? Yet when the announcers, sports writers and even podcast's discuss current hart trophy front runners he's not even in the discussion.

I guess maybe they feel it makes the Norris selection anticlimactic because if a D wins the hart than they will win the Norris as well. But as stated early it's usually the Art or Rocket or a combination of both who end up winning the Hart as well.

[LawMan]

I agree that no one's been robbed of it lately but it's not even discussed from what I can tell and from early season award prediction articles as a possibility. This likely won't hold but if the season would end today don't you think Quinn Hughes is the Hart winner? Yet when the announcers, sports writers and even podcast's discuss current hart trophy front runners he's not even in the discussion.

I guess maybe they feel it makes the Norris selection anticlimactic because if a D wins the hart than they will win the Norris as well. But as stated early it's usually the Art or Rocket or a combination of both who end up winning the Hart as well.

I agree Hughes would be the front runner if the season ended today. a D-man tied for the lead in league scoring is crazy.
Best explanation is probably that writers of the articles are lazy... need to name 1 player from 3-4 different teams, named Pettersson without much thought,. Those articles are a good example of the bias against D-men winning the Hart.

[ericdaoust]

IMO it's best not to take the NHL awards seriously

[Belexus75]

last time D won Hart was 1999-2000 i believe and it went to Chris Pronger. He had 62 points that year and Lindstrom had 73. There were 3 Fs in the 90s...

Pronger did not win based on his offense alone, he won as well rounded D and mostly for the shutdown role. The way this trophy is awarded now has changed and is mostly if not exclusively for offense from D.

The idea mentioned above about 2 trophies is very good one and actually already presented by NHL i believe as i heard Firdge talking about it on Fan 590. I think it will happen at some point but for now, i doubt D can win it unless he is clear cut highest scoring player in the league.

[Rylant]

The Hart Memorial trophy is broken. It is supposed to go to the player "adjudged to be the most valuable to his team". The issue is, that it is really difficult to determine who is the most valuable. There is no thermometer to determine how valuable somebody is, making the scoring of it VERY subjective. When you think about it, Defense and Goalie positions are just as important as forward positions, so it stands to reason that they should win just as often as forwards do. Unfortunately, the Hart often goes to the guy with the most points because that is easier to score than the "guy with the most value".

Rylant

[Feenom]

I think Hughes is a big part of that Canuck offense. Everything goes through him. I'm sure Tocchet loves the guy and plays the crap out of him nightly. He deserves massive consideration for MVP of the league IF he can stay healthy and continue this pace. He also is a Dman with that positional award being available to him. IF McDavid and Leon start to heat up and get the usual 100+ points then it will be tougher.