Place Your Bets: Will the SJ Sharks be the worst (1980 or later) *established NHL team in history?

[Pengwin7]

[NHL teams in their first 3 years from inaugural season expansion do NOT count.]
[Not counting the 70s when several expansion teams were just pummeled.]

So... the benchmark - let's say... is the 1989-1990 Quebec Nordiques with 31pts in 80gp.
That team gave up 407 goals against! 407!


For San Jose...
Obviously a terrible start to the season.
Bad forwards, (though Logan Couture will be back eventually)
Awful defense,
Terrible goalies

Surprisingly, they are only 4th worst in the NHL, all-time, for shots against per game.
Last year's ANA Ducks were actually worse - at 39.11 shots against per game:
https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/nhl...ame-per-season


Here's a quick every-single NHL season link:
https://www.bov.ch/hockey/fstand.html

[d'oh... ^this one only goes to 2012-2013... somebody will probably find a better all-on-one page NHL standings]

[2014olympicgold]

With 71 games left in their season, they need to gain 48pts to not be the worst team since 1971. Which would be a record of 22-45-4 to finish 22-55-5 (49pts).

Can SJS get 22-25 wins is the question....I say they do. I think they finish close to 60pts actually. Only because it's hard to not get 25 wins over 82 games.

The SJS finished 11-71-2 (24pts) in the 1992-93 season BTW, when the NHL season was 84 games.

---edit---
I got on this too soon lol. I say the team finishes around 25wins, so 50ish points.

[Pengwin7]

Only because it's hard to not get 25 wins over 82 games.
The SJS finished 11-71-2 (24pts) in the 1992-93 season BTW, when the NHL season was 84 games.

---edit---
I got on this too soon lol. I say the team finishes around 25wins, so 50ish points.

I will say that thinking a team will not get 25 wins because it's "hard to not"... is really inaccurate.
It's not like any team just falls into wins.
I think the amount of offense departed from SJ in the past year is greater than most people are used to seeing in a "rebuild" organization.


The '92-'93 SJ Sharks was just their 2nd season... in fairness - the expansion was brutal for those early 90s teams - including Ottawa.
(On reading... I totally did not know that the Minnesota North Stars franchise was an integral expansion part for SJ's team formation.)

The expansion back then was that existing teams could protect TWO goalies and 16 skaters.
That's crazy compared to now when it was like ONE goalie and 10 skaters (7F/3D, most teams)!!!
So... a club like SJ was drafting 4th line forwards and 3rd pairing D and a team's 3rd NHL goalie.
It took way, way longer to get a team up and competitive.

[tweetdrivr]

I went to Sharks games their first season when they played in the Cow Palace in south San Francisco. I think once Couture gets back they’ll have two lines that can do a little damage. It’ll be a long year, but they will not be the worst team since 1980.

[2014olympicgold]

I will say that thinking a team will not get 25 wins because it's "hard to not"... is really inaccurate.
It's not like any team just falls into wins.
I think the amount of offense departed from SJ in the past year is greater than most people are used to seeing in a "rebuild" organization.


The '92-'93 SJ Sharks was just their 2nd season... in fairness - the expansion was brutal for those early 90s teams - including Ottawa.
(On reading... I totally did not know that the Minnesota North Stars franchise was an integral expansion part for SJ's team formation.)

The expansion back then was that teams could protect TWO goalies and 16 skaters.
That's crazy compared to now when it was like ONE goalie and 10 skaters (7F/3D, most teams)!!!

I just meant that if you don't get to 25wins you have the worst NHL team in the history of the league (outside of the first few years of a team). Just odds say I think they can steal 25wins over 71 games. That's like going 3-8 every month moving forward. 3-4 wins over 30 days...I can see it. Like the McDavid tank yr (2014-15) had 4 teams purposely be bad and still all ended up with 50pts+. It's easy to lose games (you just don't try), but I think that the world just evens out to a point where the SJS will win 20-25 games this yr

And ya, the year I said was before you edited the original post saying to exclude the first 3years.

But even 20wins beats the 1989-90 record.

[Eskimo Brother]

I remember being on a house-league team that didn't win all year, and a rep team that got put in the wrong tournament bracket one time with kids basically two levels above us. When you're out-classed every game and you know it before and during, you don't just end up falling into wins. I think this SJ team does approach the 92-93 expansion version.

I'll preface that with "unless there are significant personnel changes".

[Canucks_fan18]

I just can't see how they are not the worst team in NHL history. There bad real bad. Even with Couture back what does that realistically leave them? I think Hertil might be there only legitimate top 6 forward. Pair that with a defense made up of what seems to be 7th defensemen, this might make the league change rules next year to avoid tanks like this in the future. How? I don't know.

[Eskimo Brother]

I just can't see how they are not the worst team in NHL history. There bad real bad. Even with Couture back what does that realistically leave them? I think Hertil might be there only legitimate top 6 forward. Pair that with a defense made up of what seems to be 7th defensemen, this might make the league change rules next year to avoid tanks like this in the future. How? I don't know.

If your team does not accumulate a minimum of 50 standings points, you get dropped back 5 places in the draft lottery.

[Canucks_fan18]

If your team does not accumulate a minimum of 50 standings points, you get dropped back 5 places in the draft lottery.

Brilliant!

[chuckcouples]

I am saying the Sharks finish with less than 50 points this season. There team isn't going to get better any time soon. No dmen at all hurts and they have zero incentive to win at this point.

[PenguinHunter]

San Jose is going to be bad... bottom feeder... all time low.

They are going to be bad up to the trade deadline, and then they are going to trade away players and get even worse.

I am betting the under.

[Pengwin7]

Yeah - I agree with others. This team is terrible.
Not just terrible... but look around at the other "worst" teams in the NHL.

SJ vs ANA... ANA looks WAY better at this point.
SJ vs CHI... CHI looks WAY better at this point
SJ vs PHI... PHI looks WAY better at this point (though, we'll see tonight w/o Hart)
SJ vs MON... MON looks WAY better at this point
SJ vs CBJ... CBJ looks WAY better at this point
SJ vs banged-up OTT... I mean... OTT still should mop the floor with them.
I read somebody, somewhere, saying SJ vs the best AHL teams might be close... and I might agree.

I mean... who is SJ going to beat?
Yes - some nights, the pucks are going to bounce one way and other teams shot are going to hit goalie pads or goalposts...

But... I'm thinking 30-40pt range is very possible.
Best case, Couture comes back fully healthy & guys like Eklund hit an upper gear. The Sharks re-promote Thrun and he catches fire as offense-producing D1.
Zadina already seems like he's settled back into garbage-land.
Anybody half-decent, like Anthony Duclair, will probably be traded - sooner rather than later.

This is just a bad team like I can't ever recall from a non-expansion type team.

Are there "current" NHL props for SJ's team totals?
I'd be curious what those are...


On this site, San Jose opened the season at 65.5 points (lowest, ANA at 68.5, CHI at 71.5, PHI next at 73.5):
https://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/point-totals/

[tweetdrivr]

We’ve seen Philly without Hart. They beat Buffalo 5-1 on Friday.

[stevegamer]

That 1980 or later clause is key. The Scouts & Capitals were very bad for years.

The very early NHL expansions were possibly even more brutal. All sorts of shenanigans to protect most of the rosters. The Flyers made a very smart move buying an AHL team, and acquiring all of those players rights.

I think that they should get to about 40 points, which would beat the Nordiques, even factoring in the point inflation from 2 extra games, and the extra point available from winning in oT< which would've just been 1 point for each team with ties.

[Dr.Brad]

Didn’t I hear that Mike Grier came down and ripped a few players new ********? Something about effort, and ending their careers cuz nobody else will want them (veterans). Maybe enough to embarrass a few guys. Maybe a sign that David Quinn doesn’t have the testicles to say this sh-t out loud.

SJS knocks off Philly tonight.

If the Oilers can waive Campbell, then….