RIP Adam Johnson - dies as result of skate injury

[Pengwin7]

I just caught the video on twitter - wasn't looking for it.
In my 40 years of playing hockey... including a ton of shitty men's league hockey players... I have never ever seen somebody's body put a skate into a player in that way.

And this incident is caused from the league's leader in PIM last year.
I... don't like it. And that's probably the most I want to say about it.
https://www.eliteleague.co.uk/stats/...er_direction=2
Petgrave also has a history of reaching his leg out to get some piece of opposing player. It's just... not appropriate hockey.
Leagues can't have players like this... it's too big a risk. Now we see the risk playing out.
https://twitter.com/doemain44/status...60618177646904

I do think people need to be considering this as if it was a Chris Simon or Sean Avery or (fill in your dangerous PIM guy of choice).
What would the NHL do if this happened?


[unfortunate that other circumstances keep people from discussing it with a level head... unf, I don't think it's possible to have a fair & real conversation about this on the internet.]

[rtstr]

A few thoughts here.
I understand the reaction of seeing that clip and thinking.. "wow, he did that on purpose"

I do not think he purposefully meant to kick him in the neck, at all. That's pretty psychotic, actually. But I do think he was pursuing a hit that is illegal in hockey. Maybe he was trying to use his leg to obstruct him... or maybe he was trying to kick at him and lost his balance after clipping skates and tilted much further back... I really don't know. Best case scenario, i think that play would result in a blindside hit and a penalty no matter what. I also don't understand, how, anatomically, your front foot could torque and lift to that degree without some level of intentional movement to flex your hip upwards. I really don't know, but it was a bizarre movement of his body that seeming flowed against the natural momentum that you'd expect. I think if anything it was reckless play by a physical player with a history for toeing the line that had the perfect storm of horrible things go wrong for the worst result imaginable. But there certainly wasn't any intent to injure, let alone kill (crazy to have to say that??)

I will say that a friend of mine is the coach of the Nottingham Panthers. The team is, understandably, a mess. But they also support Matt Petgrave and are totally sickened by the response some have had towards him. It's not ok and does not help the grieving process.

[Godin]

I just caught the video on twitter - wasn't looking for it.
In my 40 years of playing hockey... including a ton of shitty men's league hockey players... I have never ever seen somebody's body put a skate into a player in that way.

And this incident is caused from the league's leader in PIM last year.
I... don't like it. And that's probably the most I want to say about it.
https://www.eliteleague.co.uk/stats/...er_direction=2
Petgrave also has a history of reaching his leg out to get some piece of opposing player. It's just... not appropriate hockey.
Leagues can't have players like this... it's too big a risk. Now we see the risk playing out.
https://twitter.com/doemain44/status...60618177646904

I do think people need to be considering this as if it was a Chris Simon or Sean Avery or (fill in your dangerous PIM guy of choice).
What would the NHL do if this happened?


[unfortunate that other circumstances keep people from discussing it with a level head... unf, I don't think it's possible to have a fair & real conversation about this on the internet.]

After avoiding watching the video, I clicked on the twitter link here.

Petgrave is definitely negligent here. What he did is way outside the rules of hockey. I have been watched hockey for over 50 years and have never seen anything like this. He maliciously and purposely put his skate into the moving body of Adam Johnson. This was no accident like the Malarchuk and Zednik incidents where there was no intent. No, I don't believe he meant to 'kill' him, however, this was a terrible decision that will probably get him a life suspension from the game. In real life, if you hit someone and they die as a result, you are charged with involuntary manslaughter. I believe that should be the case here. There was absolutely no reason for his skate to be there.

[Belexus75]

After avoiding watching the video, I clicked on the twitter link here.

Petgrave is definitely negligent here. What he did is way outside the rules of hockey. I have been watched hockey for over 50 years and have never seen anything like this. He maliciously and purposely put his skate into the moving body of Adam Johnson. This was no accident like the Malarchuk and Zednik incidents where there was no intent. No, I don't believe he meant to 'kill' him, however, this was a terrible decision that will probably get him a life suspension from the game. In real life, if you hit someone and they die as a result, you are charged with involuntary manslaughter. I believe that should be the case here. There was absolutely no reason for his skate to be there.

i watched this once before and i was pretty sure he fell and it was freak accident, but i went back to watch again after reading some posts here and i dent to agree with above, it looks fishy to say the least...wow....wonder what will happen there...time will tell i guess...

[rataylor22]

It was a freak accident with zero intent. There will be zero supplemental discipline. Although Petgrave likely retires anyway, through a combination of the emotional trauma from the incident that was then piled on to by the freaks thinking he intentionally murdered someone on the ice.

[The Comish]

It was a freak accident with zero intent.

Your opinion. No one knows his intent except him. Sure, likely zero intent to actually kill the guy, but he needs to explain how his skate blade got up to another players neck area in what looked like a kicking motion. I've never (thankfully) seen anything even remotely like that ever.

The online race-related vitriol is despicable and has no bearing on the act itself, nor should the offender get treated differently due to immutable characteristics.

[PenguinHunter]

Your opinion. No one knows his intent except him. Sure, likely zero intent to actually kill the guy, but he needs to explain how his skate blade got up to another players neck area in what looked like a kicking motion. I've never (thankfully) seen anything even remotely like that ever.

well said Comish. Anyone with any experience in hockey knows that if you have any balance at all on your skates, that your foot is not gonna fly up in the air high enough to reach someone’s neck. The player has played enough hockey to be playing in the league that he is. He is not some first time bambi on ice. There is no way that the way he went in to make contact with one player and then his foot gets up behind him like that.

maybe he was just reacting and trying to get any piece of the player with the puck that he could and it was reactionary, but still he got his leg pretty high and it takes a lot of momentum or force or effort to get a leg that high.

[rataylor22]

Your opinion. No one knows his intent except him. Sure, likely zero intent to actually kill the guy, but he needs to explain how his skate blade got up to another players neck area in what looked like a kicking motion. I've never (thankfully) seen anything even remotely like that ever.

The online race-related vitriol is despicable and has no bearing on the act itself, nor should the offender get treated differently due to immutable characteristics.

Westin Michaud, a player on Adam's team AND one of Adam's best friends described exactly how it happened with a much better view than any of the video that has been provided shows.

[PrairieDog]

Your opinion. No one knows his intent except him. Sure, likely zero intent to actually kill the guy, but he needs to explain how his skate blade got up to another players neck area in what looked like a kicking motion. I've never (thankfully) seen anything even remotely like that ever.

Pretty close to my thoughts. Over 40 years of watching hockey, that's a first. He clearly intentionally raises his leg. As you said he did not likely intend to kill Johnson, but he intended to make contact high with his skate. I don't know what to say about a player that does that.

[Belexus75]

[QUOTE=rataylor22;2262635]It was a freak accident with zero intent. There will be zero supplemental discipline. Although Petgrave likely retires anyway, through a combination of the emotional trauma from the incident that was then piled on to by the freaks thinking he intentionally murdered someone on the i

[Belexus75]

It was a freak accident with zero intent. There will be zero supplemental discipline. Although Petgrave likely retires anyway, through a combination of the emotional trauma from the incident that was then piled on to by the freaks thinking he intentionally murdered someone on the ice.

Maybe it was maybe it wasn't, nobody knows for sure other than player causing the injury. i watched it few more times and to me there is no reason for that skate to be up, he didnt fall , trip or even got pushed really...but somehow leg was up....yes it could have been balance issue, or maybe he tried to stop the opponent from entering the zone in very weird way...i definitely find it hard to believe intent was to kick guy in the throat but im also not sure this was pure hockey play and freak accident.

[Axeman33]

I dont want to get into a pissing match here, but for everyone here who is saying they have watched/played hockey for years and have never seen a skate come up that high, watch this video in this tweet. This is just videos from the NHL, no other leagues, so I am sure there is lots of other evidence that shows that skates can, and will, come up that high accidentally. It happens folks. All it takes is being off balance a little bit and motion can take other extremities into places they normally dont go. This video doesn't prove it was intentional or accidental, but definitely provides more perspective.

Much like rataylor22, I think what happened to Johnson was an accident, but that's just my opinion based on watching the video. It's different for he and I to have the same opinion on something, but it's happens almost as often as a skate flies up.

https://twitter.com/BillTouspille/st...80274981568838

By the way, no one in the video attached here was hurt, thankfully.

[Pengwin7]

I dont want to get into a pissing match here, but for everyone here who is saying they have watched/played hockey for years and have never seen a skate come up that high

I watched it.
For clarity, my quote: I have never ever seen somebody's body put a skate into a player in that way.
And I can still say... I still haven't seen anybody put a skate into a player in.that.way.

I don't see how anybody can watch the Petgrave/Johnson clip and not say "This was avoidable."

Hockey Analysis:
Petgrave, in this hockey event, is forward-skating back into his defensive zone
As a defenseman, he is not properly positioned (should be backskating) and is tracking back on the opposing forward without puck.
Johnson - is not his man to mark.
So - Petgrave is a defenseman who has made a decision to line-up a forward that is about to cut across the blueline with puck.
Johnson is in a bit of a corridor because he's walled in by clearing the blueline and wanting to stay onside.
Instictually - great play by Johnson - because he's going to use Petgrave's momentum and his teammates entry as a pick on the defender marking him.
Instictually - Petgrave, as a defenseman - knows this too.
Johnson is going to hit the middle of the ice, free and clear, with the other three players picking each other off.

So Petgrave's move is to try alter his direction and hit Johnson.
But his vector (speed + direction) is going to miss him because Johnson has pulled up so well.
Petgrave also has to sort of jump/hop over the back-end of his opposing forward to get to Johnson. He doesn't have a straight-line.
This contortion of his body gets Petgrave off-balance. (Again - he chose to line-up Johnson and he chose to try to cut behind his marked forward to do this.)
So Petgrave's move is to stick out his leg a bit to slow down Johnson - which is something Petgrave has done in the past when he has mis-aligned for a check.

(The best anybody can do to create blockage BEHIND them is balance themselves out - your body is naturally heading forward - one leg is your fulcrum - and one leg can be extended straight back... a "T")

The skate, the death - yes 100% accident.
But the intent for a dirty hockey play because a defender was beat is... 100% there.
Even if this goes clean, maybe Petgrave runs the eff over Johnson.
We've seen this in the NHL thousands of time... and most of us would say "That's pretty dirty".

This isn't even a successful check.
It's a miss with a leg-whip to try to make some contact.
But the leg cut up too high with the skate pointing airwards.
Petgrave CHOSE to take this direction. Johnson IS NOT HIS MAN in this 2-on-2. (We can agree on that, yes?)
So Petgrave is aiming for the big hit.
It's all so bush league hockey.
It's a dirty play.
It's violent.
And it was avoidable.

Eventually people drinking & speeding are going to kill somebody.
They don't intend for it to happen... but it happens.
Same shit here. People have to see that.

I do feel for Petgrave.
There's a respect in the hockey community.
Sometimes you hate guys... you play hard... you play a bit dirty... you play to win.
99.9% of the time nobody gets hurt.
0.1% of the time - somebody does get hurt - but nobody really has ever died from dirty play.
This really sucks for Petgrave. No hockey player wants to slice another man's neck open.
He didn't want for this to happen.
I do hope people will support & empathize with Petgrave.
(It's still shit hockey - but the poor guy - Petgrave - people are being so shitty towards him.)

As a hockey thing.... it was avoidable.
And that needs to be the primary focus.... with respect to the hockey.
The hockey community does need to say "Why did this happen?" and "How do we keep this from happening again?".
Safety of the game for all players needs to be a first & foremost discussion.

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[rtstr]

I watched it.
For clarity, my quote: I have never ever seen somebody's body put a skate into a player in that way.
And I can still say... I still haven't seen anybody put a skate into a player in.that.way.

I don't see how anybody can watch the Petgrave/Johnson clip and not say "This was avoidable."

Hockey Analysis:
Petgrave, in this hockey event, is the 4th skater entering the zone.
As a defenseman, he is beat and is tracking back on the opposing forward without puck.
Johnson - is not his man to mark. But he may be able to save the rush by switching to the puck-carrier.
So - Petgrave is a defenseman who has made a decision to line-up a forward that is about to cut across the blueline with puck.
Johnson is in a bit of a corridor because he's walled in by clearing the blueline and wanting to stay onside.
Instictually - great play by Johnson - because he's going to use Petgrave's momentum and his teammates entry as a pick on the defender marking him.
Instictually - Petgrave, as a defenseman - knows this too.
Johnson is going to hit the middle of the ice, free and clear, with the other three players picking each other off.

So Petgrave's move is to try alter his direction and hit Johnson.
But his vector (speed + direction) is going to miss him because Johnson has pulled up so well.
So Petgrave's move is to stick out his leg a bit to slow down Johnson - which is something Petgrave has done in the past when he has mis-aligned for a check.

The skate, the death - yes 100% accident.
But the intent for a dirty hockey play because a defender was beat is... 100% there.
Even if this goes clean, maybe Petgrave runs the eff over Johnson.
We've seen this in the NHL thousands of time... and most of us would say "That's pretty dirty".

This isn't even a successful check.
It's a miss with a leg-whip to try to make some contact.
But the leg cut up too high with the skate pointing airwards.
Petgrave CHOSE to take this direction. Johnson IS NOT HIS MAN in this 2-on-2. (We can agree on that, yes?)
So Petgrave is aiming for the big hit.
It's all so bush league hockey.
It's a dirty play.
It's violent.
And it was avoidable.

Eventually people drinking & speeding are going to kill somebody.
They don't intend for it to happen... but it happens.
Same shit here. People have to see that.

I do feel for Petgrave.
There's a respect in the hockey community.
Sometimes you hate guys... you play hard... you play a bit dirty... you play to win.
99.9% of the time nobody gets hurt.
0.1% of the time - somebody does get hurt - but nobody really has ever died from dirty play.
This really sucks for Petgrave. No hockey player wants to slice another man's neck open.
He didn't want for this to happen.
I do hope people will support & empathize with Petgrave.
(It's still shit hockey - but the poor guy - Petgrave - people are being so shitty towards him.)

As a hockey thing.... it was avoidable.
And that needs to be the primary focus.... with respect to the hockey.
The hockey community does need to say "Why did this happen?" and "How do we keep this from happening again?".
Safety of the game for all players needs to be a first & foremost discussion.

This is a good analysis, and I think represents what most people are thinking when saying it was intentional.

[Godin]

Yes, of course the result was an accident, however, the action was not. It was a reckless and malicious attempt to stop Johnson with his skate. Petgrave's momentum was towards Johnson, so regardless of whether he lost his balance or got clipped, which would have propelled his upper body into Johnson, he consciously raised his leg into Johnson to stop him.

For Adam's parents sake, I wish it was an accident. It wasn't. If you sucker punch someone and they fall and hit their head on concrete and die, it's involuntary manslaughter. This was a 'sucker punch'.

https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/171...962693064?s=20