Stankoven vs Johnston

[stevegamer]

Interestingly, I didn't think the Sharks gave Hlabgewachs a real shot. They were a tire fire, he was young, and a decent AHL producer, and he got barely any NHL time.

Would Steve Sullivan count as a shifty undersized playmaker? Martin St Louis may have scored a bit too much. Maybe these two guys are too far removed from the current state of the game to count?

[Pengwin7]

Interestingly, I didn't think the Sharks gave Hlabgewachs a real shot. They were a tire fire, he was young, and a decent AHL producer, and he got barely any NHL time.

Would Steve Sullivan count as a shifty undersized playmaker? Martin St Louis may have scored a bit too much. Maybe these two guys are too far removed from the current state of the game to count?

Yeah... those are great examples. (some REP to you)
Weird that we had to go back that far to find those guys.

[Axeman33]

Yeah... those are great examples. (some REP to you)
Weird that we had to go back that far to find those guys.

As I mentioned earlier, Brayden Point is a very good comparison. I dont even think Point had the same shot quality as Stankoven coming into the league but he still finds the net in that bumper position.

[Pengwin7]

As I mentioned earlier, Brayden Point is a very good comparison.

I disagree.
I think Point's size AND shot are WAY better than those of Stankoven.

Point is electric in the slot/pivot/bumper of the TB PP1. He's very comfortable WITHOUT puck in the middle of the ice.
I don't see that being an effective spot for Stankoven. Stankoven is too small and his shot isn't that strong (as Point's).
Stankoven prefers perimeter play and he likes to shift into middle-ice WITH the puck when HE feels like it.

Point is a very special player in how he works middle ice.
(I also wouldn't consider Point as "small".)




^This isn't Stankoven's game - receiving pucks in front.

[Axeman33]

I disagree.
I think Point's size AND shot are WAY better than those of Stankoven.

Point is electric in the slot/pivot/bumper of the TB PP1. He's very comfortable WITHOUT puck in the middle of the ice.
I don't see that being an effective spot for Stankoven. Stankoven is too small and his shot isn't that strong (as Point's).
Stankoven prefers perimeter play and he likes to shift into middle-ice WITH the puck when HE feels like it.

Point is a very special player in how he works middle ice.
(I also wouldn't consider Point as "small".)




^This isn't Stankoven's game - receiving pucks in front.

Im just saying, coming out of Jr hockey, I get the same feeling for Stankoven that I got from watching Brayden Point. They are very similar to me at that point in their careers, both in skillset and size. Point is a hair taller, but not much.

Here's a scouting report from The Hockey Writers on both kids in their draft years. I used their website as a reference because both reports use the same format. Both kids were rated as "small" and would have been drafted higher if their height wasn't an issue.

https://thehockeywriters.com/brayden...pect-profiles/

https://thehockeywriters.com/logan-s...spect-profile/

[Pengwin7]

You might be right.
Point definitely evolved nicely from his junior days.
Whether Stankoven can do that... yeah... maybe. Maybe.

[I don't remember knowing much on Point - but he obviously grew - he's not 5'-9". Stankoven has not grown... and won't. He's age 20, so he's 5'-8" to stay. I'm 5'-9"... there's a big difference in those three inches from 5'-8" to 5'-11". Any way - that's too much focus on size. Point's CURRENT game is much different from Stankoven's CURRENT game. I don't think it's fair to expect ANY player to develop into Brayden Point. That was a very special development.]

[PicklePickle]

Is it possible Stankoven becomes a unique kind of player?

I like the Gallagher comp even tho I think Stankoven is better

[Pengwin7]

Is it possible Stankoven becomes a unique kind of player?

Possibly.
I don't think anybody saw Martin St.Louis becoming what he did.

But... I just think to many people are banking on Stankoven's D+1,D+2 stats and his WJC riding with Bedard as "enough" evidence that he'll pan out in NHL.


As a "blast from the past"...
Back on Dec.31st 2014, there was the USA vs. Canada WJC (U20) match.

Jack Eichel was the USA C1... flanked by Tyler Motte (small energy-guy) and Alex Tuch (big).
Connor McDavid was the CAN C1... flanked by Curtis Lazar (midsize energy-guy) and Nick Ritchie (big).
https://www.sbncollegehockey.com/usa...l-network-4-pm

Nic Petan and Curtis Lazar came out of that WJC with similar point output as McDavid.
They certainly didn't become NHL stars... even with nice junior careers.

For the US, Sonny Milano had as many points in that tournament as Jack Eichel.


Milano, Petan, Lazar... they all made it to the NHL.
But none of them became anything close to stars - with Milano showing two-week flashes when a coach gave him topline usage.

IDK... I just think we do this sooooooo often - which is to find a 20-year old who knocked his stats out-of-the-park at age 19 & 20... and who rode big in a WJC...
And we're just ready to put a crown on their heads and say "He'll make it in the NHL".

We'll see on Stankoven.
I'm just not seeing "NHL"-star level stuff.

Here's a 2021 list I like.
(This is also real-NHL value, not fantasy)
These guys are pretty good.
Knies is at #13... and nobody had Knies nearly that high that year. They did.
Not on this list... Stankoven.


Further to this... I think a lot of people have some respect for Cam Robinson, former Dobber writer.
Read some gushing he did on the 5'-8" Kailer Yamamoto. He also gushes on Sonny Milano in this link.... now there's a couple comparables. Stankoven = Yamamoto (TSN-Button).
(Where's Yamamoto today?!?)

[marc1pol2]

Possibly.
I don't think anybody saw Martin St.Louis becoming what he did.

But... I just think to many people are banking on Stankoven's D+1,D+2 stats and his WJC riding with Bedard as "enough" evidence that he'll pan out in NHL.


As a "blast from the past"...
Back on Dec.31st 2014, there was the USA vs. Canada WJC (U20) match.

Jack Eichel was the USA C1... flanked by Tyler Motte (small energy-guy) and Alex Tuch (big).
Connor McDavid was the CAN C1... flanked by Curtis Lazar (midsize energy-guy) and Nick Ritchie (big).
https://www.sbncollegehockey.com/usa...l-network-4-pm

Nic Petan and Curtis Lazar came out of that WJC with similar point output as McDavid.
They certainly didn't become NHL stars... even with nice junior careers.

For the US, Sonny Milano had as many points in that tournament as Jack Eichel.


Milano, Petan, Lazar... they all made it to the NHL.
But none of them became anything close to stars - with Milano showing two-week flashes when a coach gave him topline usage.

IDK... I just think we do this sooooooo often - which is to find a 20-year old who knocked his stats out-of-the-park at age 19 & 20... and who rode big in a WJC...
And we're just ready to put a crown on their heads and say "He'll make it in the NHL".

We'll see on Stankoven.
I'm just not seeing "NHL"-star level stuff.

Here's a 2021 list I like.
(This is also real-NHL value, not fantasy)
These guys are pretty good.
Knies is at #13... and nobody had Knies nearly that high that year. They did.
Not on this list... Stankoven.


Further to this... I think a lot of people have some respect for Cam Robinson, former Dobber writer.
Read some gushing he did on the 5'-8" Kailer Yamamoto. He also gushes on Sonny Milano in this link.... now there's a couple comparables. Stankoven = Yamamoto (TSN-Button).
(Where's Yamamoto today?!?)

No Wyatt Johnston on this list neither... and it's not like Knies has proven something in the NHL yet

[Pengwin7]

Good point. Mark Donk isn't on the list either.

[marc1pol2]

Good point. Mark Donk isn't on the list either.

I know it's frustrating to realize the weakness of our arguments. It sometimes lead to use personal attack as a defense method.

[Pengwin7]

I know it's frustrating to realize the weakness of our arguments. It sometimes lead to use personal attack as a defense method.

You lost me.
What does this mean?

[marc1pol2]

You lost me.
What does this mean?

I thought Mark Donk was an insult as my name is Marc(1pol2). Just googled Mark Donk and got it. Still, the argument of "Stankoven not being on a list" is not solid, you usually are more convincing

[Pengwin7]

I'll grant you that... that the "list" argument isn't effective.
I suppose... if one posts many, many things on a player... one can be handpicked as weak.
I have a weak argument. Sorry. Apology. You are right.
The 2021 list I linked doesn't include Stankoven or Wyatt. Honestly - good point.


Did you... want to pick a player yourself?
I mean... it is a Wyatt vs. Stankoven thread... and... unless I missed it, you are now 3 posts in and didn't choose a player.

[marc1pol2]

I'll pick Wyatt... I think what he did at 19 YO (24G/41P) is just too good too pick a prospect (even though he looks promising) who havent played a game in the show yet.