Erik Karlsson to Pittsburgh [TRADE]

[Pengwin7]

FYI... my 2 cents on Petry vs. Hoffman.

Petry is still playoff-caliber piece.
Hoffman is not.
For trade value, Petry >> Hoffman, especially at 50% of current cap hits of each.

[rataylor22]

I find it interesting people think SJ did well with only retaining $1.5M specifically. There isn't a limit to how much money a team can retain (outside of an owners pocketbook). There is a limit to the number of times a team can retain. To burn one spot on Burns for another 2 years and another slot on Karlsson for 4 years and get basically no value out of doing so is wasting those slots, and now they have far less flexibility in the "accumulating assets" phase of their rebuild. At this point it would have been smarter to take even less of a return and retain nothing than clogging up a spot with $1.5M for 4 years.

[2014olympicgold]

I find it interesting people think SJ did well with only retaining $1.5M specifically. There isn't a limit to how much money a team can retain (outside of an owners pocketbook). There is a limit to the number of times a team can retain. To burn one spot on Burns for another 2 years and another slot on Karlsson for 4 years and get basically no value out of doing so is wasting those slots, and now they have far less flexibility in the "accumulating assets" phase of their rebuild. At this point it would have been smarter to take even less of a return and retain nothing than clogging up a spot with $1.5M for 4 years.

The idea might be that they want to go FA hunting within those 4yrs to help Couture/Hertl do well. They'll need bodies in 2024-25 after Labanc, Hoffman, Duclair, Barabonov, Lindbolm, Simek, MacDonald, and Kahkonen are all UFAs.

Money also seems to be a big factor, they moved Meier at the deadline even though his deal wasn't outrageous in terms of cap.

[tweetdrivr]

It’s all a compromise. Retaining more to make the use of that spot more “worth it” makes zero sense but I don’t think that’s what you’re saying. To get one less asset and retain nothing seems like it wouldn’t have been acceptable to the other teams. I don’t think this deal was ever getting done without some retention unless SJ paid something - which is going the wrong way. This was seen as the least objectionable outcome.

[Daydream Nation]

It’s all a compromise. Retaining more to make the use of that spot more “worth it” makes zero sense but I don’t think that’s what you’re saying. To get one less asset and retain nothing seems like it wouldn’t have been acceptable to the other teams. I don’t think this deal was ever getting done without some retention unless SJ paid something - which is going the wrong way. This was seen as the least objectionable outcome.

I think retaining more and receiving more assets back would have been the preferred trade for SJ if Pittsburgh was willing. Tying up a retention slot for 4 years is a rather significant price and cuts down their options moving forward.

[Pengwin7]

^The whole "retention" aspect of the trade is absolutely driving me bananas.

Like...
Pittsburgh and San Jose agreed to get SJ to retain $1.5m x 4years ($6m total retained).
Is this Dubas' want... or Grier's? Or some compromise?

And...
Pittsburgh goes and retains $1.5m x 2 years on Petry.
Like... could PIT not have just taken the full $11.5m on Karlsson and found somebody to take full-Petry?
Was that maybe just a no-go for Hughes (MON)?
Like - Hughes said "We'll take Petry at $4.75m... but not $6.25m?"
I've run through this deal several times... and I feel like it actually runs backwards from Hughes (MON) saying he'd only take Petry at a lower cap hit.

It all seems a bit nutty to me.

I'm assuming it started here:
GRIER (SJ) - I want at least a 1st in return for Karlsson.
DUBAS (PIT) - You are going to have to retain X amount for us to do that?
[weeks of discussion later...]
DUBAS (PIT) - If you take Granlund & Ruuta in full... we'll send you a first... no retain needed on Karlsson.
GRIER (SJ) - Sighs. OK.
DUBAS... checks numbers... good-to-go, just gotta get Petry off roster.
...
DUBAS (PIT) - Kent, what'll it take for you to take Petry & DeSmith from us?
HUGHES (MON) - I don't want him at $6.25m. Hard no.
DUBAS (PIT) - How 'bout some lower cap hit?
HUGHES (MON) - We'll do $4.75m for Petry + DeSmith and somebody french - you have to throw in a 2nd - and take Hoffman.
DUBAS (PIT) - I might be able to do that. Let me check. This is a lot of work for poor me. I'll do it if you send us Rem Pitlick.
HUGHES (MON) - Get it done and call me back.
...
Dubas - chugs numbers - can't fit the extra $1.5m in. Giggles internally about making a trade with Karlsson and Hoffman.
...
DUBAS (PIT) - Mike - we have a hang-up. I need to clear another $1.5m.
GRIER (SJ) - What... so you want us to retain now on Karlsson?
DUBAS (PIT) - Yeah, unfortunately deal is dead unless you can retain $1.5m and take Mike Hoffman from Montreal.
GRIER (SJ) - Ooof. Well, I told our owners we had a deal.
DUBAS (PIT) - Too bad, buddy. I guess you are going to look bad.
GRIER (SJ) - I don't like this... feels like I'm getting the short-end. Pauses. Fine, fine, whatever. Let's do it.
DUBAS (PIT) - Sounds good... I also need a 3rd round pick for doing all the legwork.
GRIER (SJ) - I hate you, fine.


(#MakeBelieveGMland)

[loppantorkel]

I wonder what the trade would've looked like before the Norris season if only $1.5M was retained. 4 more years at 10M isn't just upside. Good trade for Pittsburgh but I'm pretty sure SJ is happy to have made the deal in the end. It may get impossible again, like the last few years, in a few months.

[kovalchuk17]

With all the players with retained salaries and teams reaching close/using their alotted 3, we are reaching the point where a team will trade the player away at full salary first to another team, team 2 retains 50%, then team 3 may retain 25% of the whole amount, then team 4 finally gets him at 25%. Team 1, 2 and 3 will all get picks but the return for Team 2 may exceed the return for Team 1 since their retain slot is being used for the larger amount of cap hit.

[Invictus]

Hey Pengwin7

How did the Gilmour trade to Toronto go down?

(may need it's own thread)

[lucafen4]

Hey Pengwin7

How did the Gilmour trade to Toronto go down?

(may need it's own thread)

It went something like this...

Fletcher & Risebrough met for drinks
FLETCHER: Hey Risebrough, take a look at this pocketwatch my father left me.
RISEBROUGH: Wow, that's a beaut. Pure gold? it's so polished and shiny.
FLETHER: You're getting sleepy....

Risebrough comes to believing the Flames won the deal and smiles his way through a week of headlines

[Invictus]

Oh right.
I forgot about that little trick since it hasn't been able to work in years!

[lucafen4]

Oh right.
I forgot about that little trick since it hasn't been able to work in years!

Now you know the 'why?'

[2014olympicgold]

Its a moot point now, but apparently it's true that the Leafs dating back to even last yr were trying to get a trade done to acquire Karlsson.

Dubas said "It was a fairly lengthy process that goes back to my previous employment"

[loppantorkel]

Its a moot point now, but apparently it's true that the Leafs dating back to even last yr were trying to get a trade done to acquire Karlsson.

Dubas said "It was a fairly lengthy process that goes back to my previous employment"

Erik Karlsson in Toronto of course would've been more fun... but it's good the San Jose days are done.

[rataylor22]

It’s all a compromise. Retaining more to make the use of that spot more “worth it” makes zero sense but I don’t think that’s what you’re saying. To get one less asset and retain nothing seems like it wouldn’t have been acceptable to the other teams. I don’t think this deal was ever getting done without some retention unless SJ paid something - which is going the wrong way. This was seen as the least objectionable outcome.

Sorry to clarify, that is exactly what I am saying. Salary retention slots are one of the most valuable assets a rebuilding team has. San Jose has done extremely poor job of using these slots. The cost to use these slots at the deadline can often be a third round pick to hold salary for a couple months, San Jose got a 3rd to hold 33% of Brent Burns salary for 3 years. The got seemingly nothing to hold $1.5M of Karlsson's salary for 4 years. It would have been better to take a 2nd instead of a 1st and hold none of Karlsson's salary, or hold a significant amount and get extra premium assets. They have completed wasted 2 of their most valuable assets for close to nothing.