Justin Holl's time and performance in Detroit - success or failure?

[loppantorkel]

People here, and in parts elsewhere, seem to be very down on Justin Holl. I can't say I have that high opinion of him either as an NHL D, from what I've seen and read, but he's played a few years in Toronto (which has horrible team structure, from what I've heard...) and now got himself a 3-year deal in Detroit. Since he signed it as a FA, it's an overpayment almost by definition, so that's not the question.
Detroit has had issues on the right side D for years and this year they'll have, aside from Seider, - G Lindstrom, Brogan Rafferty, and possibly Chiarot or Ghostis playing on their offsides. I figured Holl likely would be able to contribute somewhat in this environment, but maybe he's a worse option and the Detroit organization just made a mistake.

Concluding question: Justin Holl isn't a great D, likely not a good NHL D, maybe a decent 3rd pair D, possibly bad NHL D, but will he make the Detroit D demonstrably worse?
I've got no idea how this will play out, but I'm interested to see the conclusion at the end of the year. Is the Detroit pro-scouting bad at their job? Does left-right hand position matter much? What is Justin Holl's true talent away from Toronto?

I'll try resurrect this thread at the end of each upcoming season to see how he's doing. ..but the poll will end in October 2023.

Poll coming.

[lucafen4]

I see no poll...

Holl was better than Tor fans/media portrayed.

He an Schenn were the two most reliable D clearing the zone vs. Fla.
He's an average bottom pair Dman.

Problem in Tor - they lacked strong puck moving Dman not named Rielly.
It pushed other Leafs D into situations not great for their skill sets = higher risk situations then preferred.

He will disappear from headlines in Detroit.
Hopefully, he settles into a comfortable role suitable for his skill set

He's good, not great. not above average on D.
It will play out like most role players that leave Toronto
We rarely hear about them again.
depth role players don't make headlines unless you play in Van, Tor, Mtl.

[2014olympicgold]

Holl was a slightly above average defender without the puck. The second he had the puck he had about 2s before he panicked and would just fire it up the boards, or try to make a dumb pass. And there's nothing wrong with the "fire it up the boards" thought, but he wouldn't look to see if it was the right play. So soemtimes he'd fire it up the boards right to an opponent. And in that case, the opponent gets the puck, no forwards are thinking defense, Holl and his partner are usually not close enough to close the gap, and it turns into an extended shift in the defensive zone.

In the offensive zone...he was mindblowing to watch. In a bad way. He'd make the safe play randomly, think and poorly execute the extra pass play, or deer in the headlights and do nothing play.

Will he do well...He will not live up to a $3.4m deal in 2023-24. With the cap raising, his value also slightly does. To me though, he is someone you can replace with a cheap option if you have a strong scouting team. His talent and skill level isn't a hard thing to scout, but you need to physically see that type of player play. He won't show up on stat sheets. He wont' show up in highlight packs. But he will get coaches praise, and a PK scout will like him.

Holl lacks the ability to take a puck off someone and get it to the forwards. But you know, it's not like transition skills are highly sought after right?

[hockeyrobot]

Just give me someone who I don't notice. I'll be happy with that. Hopefully the staff can get through to him to just do less.

[2014olympicgold]

Just give me someone who I don't notice. I'll be happy with that. Hopefully the staff can get through to him to just do less.

I pointed out to my father-in-law who liked Holl to just watch him whenever he's on. Don't watch the play, watch him. He quickly flipped his thought. I don't know what it is, but you can go games and not really notice him if you just watch the play, but if you watch just him...he's infuriating lol

[2014olympicgold]

I voted as he'll hold down a 2nd/3rd line spot...it's because of his contract. He'll have a starting position on the team, he'll do well enough, but he'll also turn into a player that fans will go "omg whyyy". Or "hey there's Holl again". He won't create offensively, so his defensive gaffs aren't erased from your mind.

[ericdaoust]

Plenty of defensemen get 2nd pair minutes and absolutely don't deserve it

[tweetdrivr]

Correct. And now he’s got a contract which says he’s that. So, even though he isn’t, he’ll be treated as such. Maybe they’ll have seen enough and acknowledge he’s a massive drag on the team. But who knows.

[lucafen4]

Why do we care so much about Holl anyway?

[tweetdrivr]

Great question.

[lucafen4]

Great question.

it's like a Leafs troll... but not, rolled into one.

[Feenom]

Stevie Y knows that Dubas loves Holl. So the sly fox is waiting for the prey. Genius just genius. :/

[Belexus75]

Hill will be just fine… Toronto can be a cruel market… I don’t expect this to be exactly Larry Murphy situation but think he will thrive with change of scenery … how well? Time will tell.

[hockeyrobot]

Stevie Y knows that Dubas loves Holl. So the sly fox is waiting for the prey. Genius just genius. :/

Perfect deadline acquisition for Pittsburgh.

[Pengwin7]

re: Holl microscope.
For those wondering why the attention on Holl - Leafs fans/analysts put him under the most negative of microscopes in the playoffs.
His goals against - in all situations was terrible in his 8 playoff games.

Now... keep in mind, this is five games against TB and three games against FLA.
Tough opponents.

But he was on for a 3gf/10ga split at even-strength in those 8 games.
And he was on for 8ga short-handed (other team on PP) in those 8 games.
https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?re...=0&pageSize=50

Any TOR fans or numbers-geeks on twitter were well aware of the TOR-fanboy-twitter-rants.
I'm not sure other people were aware of it.

Basically, Leaf fans (speaking broadly) threw him under the bus as the "reason" for another playoff exit.
(or for the almost 1st round playoff exit to TB... which they pulled out... save for Holl causing them to almost self-destruct)

*Holl was, of course, on the ice when Cousins (FLA) eliminated TOR in game5. I'm sure TOR fans gave it to him just for being on the ice for that.

(I can't say I watched TOR enough during regular season to eval Holl.)
(I can also say that 99% of NHL fans don't have the slightest clue to eval a defenseman properly.)