Solar Panels for your House

[chuckcouples]

Does anyone have any experience adding solar panels to their house as an energy source? I am in Alberta and am considering gettting that done but I am finding it difficult to find reliable information.

[Axeman33]

I dont have any installed on my house, but a lot of my friends have them on their homes. I am not sure what type of information you are actually looking for.

The way I understand it, what you do with the power you generate from the panels may vary from province to province. Here in NS, the majority of my friends just sell it back to NSP and basically it pays for their monthly power bill. The downfall is they are still susceptible like everyone else when the power goes out to no power. The only way around that is to invest in the battery and inverter option along with the panels but from what I hear, that pretty much doubles the cost and the initial cost itself isn't cheap. A lot of them actually can finance the purchase through NSP as well but again, you're kind of trading dollars until they are paid off from the cost of the panels to the sell back to NSP.

[Pengwin7]

From the rumblings I hear in the structural/construction industry - the vibe is that the contractors that install these when ATTACHING TO HOUSE are still not dependable enough yet.
It's not a "solar panel" issue - it's an installation issue. A lot of government programs are trying to look good by promoting natural energy (solar).
But it's still not "mass popular" yet - which means you have spot contractors installing them that may or may not give a fugg about how well they seal connection points & lines to your house.

[If you have land - and are just installing them in a field... different conversation. Do it, if the price is right.]

From the people I've heard tell stories - it's "Not Worth It... Yet".

Think of it like flat-panel TV screens.
Remember when they first came out. You get a 37" TV for like $1500.
Now, a 37" TV is like $300 and it's high quality.

For me - the fact that a testing company like Consumer Reports isn't doing "solar panels" yet is a "big tell".

Also - like electric cars. Great idea - yes.
But they aren't cheap enough yet for the ROI.

re: Solar Panels
Don't do it... yet. My advice.
Wait a bit longer (3-5 years) - it's only going to get cheaper.
Also - only consider it if you are in your forever house OR if you are NOT attaching the panels to the house.
If you plan to sell in next 10 years, you don't know how the buyer base is going to perceive solar panels.
Not everybody likes the idea of those on their home.

[This said, if you are the ULTIMATE DIY guy and your energy bills are enormous... then... maybe... because you know you'll do a damn fine job on your own forever house.]

[Invictus]

I have two big standalone solar power units that we sell back to the grid.

Battery banks would also require ventilation…

adding solar panels to the roof adds more load which makes it collapse quicker in fire. Also you can’t really shut them off so working around them is a hazard.
I gotta go though

[lobo1969]

Does anyone have any experience adding solar panels to their house as an energy source? I am in Alberta and am considering gettting that done but I am finding it difficult to find reliable information.

Are you on facebook? Because there is a lot of proxy info for researching the local solar panel scene there:

Check this virtual seminar coming up in a few days: https://www.facebook.com/SolarAlbert...0366849318501/

I don't specifically belong to any solar centric groups right now but I get ALOT of Alberta solar info from Electric Vehicles groups I belong to. Many EV owners naturally discuss solar/green energy setups for their homes and a lot of pointers for it works best in Alberta. My wife and I have 2 Teslas in the garage and we will eventually look to build a new house with a substantial solar/battery setup.

[BloodSport]

I work in the Wildlife removal industry and homes with solar panels installed on roofs are our best customers. The 4-6 inch gap between your roof and the bottom of the solar panel is the perfect shelter for any number of animals. We just charged a customer $7000 to fix his damage, but the average cost for these homes are $2000. They get under there, go through your roof and then boom, a normal easy fix, is made hard due to the solar panels.

[Pengwin7]

I work in the Wildlife removal industry and homes with solar panels installed on roofs are our best customers. The 4-6 inch gap between your roof and the bottom of the solar panel is the perfect shelter for any number of animals. We just charged a customer $7000 to fix his damage, but the average cost for these homes are $2000. They get under there, go through your roof and then boom, a normal easy fix, is made hard due to the solar panels.

Yes! Awesome post - not only that, but any small joint in a house (where a solar panel mount leg attaches to roof) is a place where rain can enter the house or heat can escape the house (unless REALLY well sealed - and "solar panel" contractors don't have time for that). If heat is escaping the house - then not only is the surface good shelter - it can provide a spot amount of warmth. (My dad knows a fair share of people in Canada in old houses that have critters in crawl spaces and attics as soon as they find that one tiny hole they can chew larger and get through. If they feel the heat, they're interested.


The biggest reason solar panels are catching on is that governments have programs to give "credits" when they are installed. A certain amount - usually based on the cost of solar panel and some "base" installation fee.
That's the key thing, some "base" installation fee.

I don't know what they cost.
But say the solar panels are $4000 and installation costs are ($4000 to do it fast, $8000 to do it well) and the government gives $6000 coverage.
If you are a home-owner, you are ALL IN on a $2000 charge, but probably not interested on a $6000 charge.
And as a homeowner, you don't want to spend $6000 on installation costs if you can't be sure (and you can't) that a quality install is >>> "base" install.


One thing most people don't know about "contractors" is this:
*The BEST contractors do COMMERCIAL WORK
*The NEXT BEST contractors do HIGH-END EXPENSIVE HOME RESIDENTIAL WORK
*The WORST contractors do LOW-END CHEAP HOME or small NEW NICHE-PROJECT WORK where money has POPPED UP (from sources like "new government incentives")

For anybody to do ANYTHING well... they have to do it for years & years & years... and be in a line of succession of trickle-down education (mentorships).
Solar panels haven't been around for years & years in mass install. That's the problem.
(So - as I said before. Don't get them if you are mounting them on your roof. If you can ground-mount them... fine.)


[NB: I have NO IDEA what a solar panel installation costs - I'd be curious if anybody has the numbers.]

[Belexus75]

Does anyone have any experience adding solar panels to their house as an energy source? I am in Alberta and am considering gettting that done but I am finding it difficult to find reliable information.

So i worked with solar panels installed on flat commercial roofs for long time and because of that i also got some idea about the residential panels...

Many things already said are truth and some are fabricated but in general they all paint right picture. Its not best idea for many reasons...

Now, i dont believe this was touched on, and i dont know how it is in Alberta, but in Ontario you sell your energy back to the grid, you can no use it..

Most solar panels are sold with understanding that they pay for themselves in about 7 years (that was pre inflation, since energy cost is not up but everything else is im assuming that time is extended now). After that they will tell you that it is pure profit for you, and technically they are right. What they dont tell you is that that profit is nowhere close to what you make to pay off the initial cost. After about 5 years and definitely after 7, these panels are not as efficient as they are new. They loose quite a bit of productivity and they keep loosing it every year. After about 20 years, you are left with garbage on your roof and now its your cost to dispose. At the moment, its not bad but who knows what harmful substance they will find in them one day and if we will need to do special abetment.

All in all, i personally dont think they are wroth a hustle.

[Belexus75]

Yes! Awesome post - not only that, but any small joint in a house (where a solar panel mount leg attaches to roof) is a place where rain can enter the house or heat can escape the house (unless REALLY well sealed - and "solar panel" contractors don't have time for that). If heat is escaping the house - then not only is the surface good shelter - it can provide a spot amount of warmth. (My dad knows a fair share of people in Canada in old houses that have critters in crawl spaces and attics as soon as they find that one tiny hole they can chew larger and get through. If they feel the heat, they're interested.

Assuming we dealing with steep slope roofs with attics where vapour barrier and insulation are on top of the ceiling of the house and not under roofing materials, THIS STATEMENT IS COMPLETLY WRONG!

If heat is in fact escaping through the hole in mounting bracket or anywhere through your roof in fact, it means your attic functionality is broken and you have much bigger problems than solar panels on the roof. If attic functions as intended, the attic temperature should always be the same as outside temperature. Main seal from the house should be at the ceiling level and that is where insulation should be. There should be no worm air entering the attic. Therefore there be no warm air in the attic to escape through your bracket holes. That part should not be a concern. Leaks? yeah they can happen even if brackets are initially sealed well. Potential concern with structural problems? yes that can happen. Warm air escaping your house? no, that is not your concern.

Most important component of the attic, is ventilation. In my opinion its even more important than insulation. Poorly insulated attic may cost you double in energy cost. Poorly ventilated attic, may cost you thousands in structural repairs and replacement of rotten wood. And trust me, this can happen very quick if suddenly ventilation is compromised in any way.

[Invictus]

[NB: I have NO IDEA what a solar panel installation costs - I'd be curious if anybody has the numbers.]

I can't speak for roof installations, but I have two large standalone ground mount panels. Built on a cement pad, capable of tracking the sun and wind (high winds they move to a flat lay position to avoid damage). The initial cost was ~$20k and power was sold back to the grid at higher than usage cost.

They have long since payed for themselves.
Right now there's an issue with the tracker system so the panels don't move to the sunlight. This has been an issue for several years now and it's not known what is malfunctioning. The company we were set up with, discontinued their solar division. We were passed off to another company... which is seemingly non existent. All of us that have these installations are seemingly on our own now.

Without this tracking the panels are operating at ~75% effectiveness.
As Belexus75 mentions the cells losing effectiveness over time... I don't know how less effective our cells are, but they certainly aren't garbage status.

[Belexus75]

I can't speak for roof installations, but I have two large standalone panels. Built on a cement pad, capable of tracking the sun and wind (high winds they move to a flat lay position to avoid damage). The initial cost was ~$20k and power was sold back to the grid at higher than usage cost.

They have long since payed for themselves.
Right now there's an issue with the tracker system so the panels don't move to the sunlight. This has been an issue for several years now and it's not known what is malfunctioning. The company we were set up with, discontinued their solar division. We were passed off to another company... which is seemingly non existent. All of us that have these installations are seemingly on our own now.

Without this tracking the panels are operating at ~75% effectiveness.
As Belexus75 mentions the cells losing effectiveness over time... I don't know how less effective our cells are, but they certainly aren't garbage status.

how long you had them...its my understanding for most models 20 years is when garbage status kicks in ....be they are fraction of they originally are about 10 years in.

you can problem figure out effectiveness based on what kind of money you make from them vs what you made first few years. That part im not sure exactly how it works.

[DangerCat]

This whole solar and electric “green” movement isnt as green or clean as people like to believe. Oil and gas is still fundamental in extraction of the raw materials, production of casing and refinement and the numerous chemicals in the batteries. The batteries themselves are highly toxic and require special disposal and in the cars only last around 5-10 years (though sadly most bodies on new vehicles don’t last more than that - sad that there’s more metal in my backpack zipper than a new Kia). Solar panels are made with oil and gas and if we’re honest the majority of electric power is still produced by coal power plants. To have ALL vehicles become electric will require billions of dollars in upgrading the grid and adding more power into the grid. If we don’t go coal then what do we use if you’re landlocked? Nuclear. Nuclear power is an incredibly cool technology. But we hear how safe it is..except all the horrendously poisonous waste and unfortunately catastrophic events happen and these plants blow as we have seen and that causes effects that not only are devastating but long lasting. I do honesty believe it would be better for us to all be driving around in early ‘90s caprices that have fuel injection and those 350 v8’s are simple, plenteous, reliable and easy to fix. It doesn’t require anything new to be produced and these new gas job engines are incredibly efficient. I know it’s not “fun” to keep making the same old car every year but if we’re really concerned about the environment and pollution I am thinking it may be proper to stay put. I probably sound like a dinosaur and that’s okay but I hope to inject an alternate opinion to maybe cause someone to think twice about how “green” really is the green movement. Thoughts?

[Invictus]

Nuclear Power is (currently) definitely the way to go for mass power. Just as safe as wind and solar energy.

[/B]how long you had them...its my understanding for most models 20 years is when garbage status kicks in ....be they are fraction of they originally are about 10 years in.

you can problem figure out effectiveness based on what kind of money you make from them vs what you made first few years. That part im not sure exactly how it works.

I think I would have to compare a peak day from recent to a peak day from when it was installed.
This will take some time...

[Pengwin7]

Assuming we dealing with steep slope roofs with attics where vapour barrier and insulation are on top of the ceiling of the house and not under roofing materials, THIS STATEMENT IS COMPLETLY WRONG!

Can't argue with this conditional criticism on my post.
Congratulations to all of you fortunate enough well-to-dos that live in new, perfectly sealed residential homes!
You got me & my world of middle-to-lower class, old, poorly sealed homes beat!

Ignore my post if you live in an impeccably sealed structure!

[Belexus75]

Can't argue with this conditional criticism on my post.
Congratulations to all of you fortunate enough well-to-dos that live in new, perfectly sealed residential homes!
You got me & my world of middle-to-lower class, old, poorly sealed homes beat!

Ignore my post if you live in an impeccably sealed structure!

so you come across snarky and you still dont get the main point...and you work in the field so im very surprised....

...house does not need to be perfectly sealed for outdoor temperature to be same as that in the attic...what you need to have is good ventilation both at eaves and ridge ...that is a case in majority of homes.
...
In last 5+ years there been companies out there that offer to insulate your attic but do nothing else...if you got one of those companies for insulation, your attic is probably broken, otherwise chances are its not...

and you should not be misleading people unless you 100% know what you talking about...there is no warm air in attics in 99% of attics in the winter....