Coyotes relocating to Salt Lake City

[Pengwin7]

So... what's the path forward?

Shit I (honestly) don't know.
1. What is more likely - that Arizona plays in Arizona for 2023-24 or somewhere else?
2. What is more likely - that Arizona plays in Arizona for 2024-25 or somewhere else?
3. Does the Arizona ownership get to "sell" at this point? To anywhere they wish? Or do they get to "move"? To anywhere they wish?
4. Does Bettman have any right to help or force transition? (I assume the NHL ownership group gets vote/say in what the Yotes do.)

I mean... the "where", to me, isn't as interesting as "what can/will ownership do? in the coming months"

[rataylor22]

I also don't know. In Atlanta the owners just threw the keys on the table I think. Pretty sure all True North had to pay was the relocation fee, not even sure they paid the previous ownership anything for the team. Theoretically the Merulo's could make this very easy and straightforward or very sticky and difficult. Given their previous business practices I know what I would be expecting.

[Pengwin7]

Yup - Atlanta was simply a "We don't want the team, can we sell it?".
And the NHL said "Yup".

As timeline, the Thrashers were reported as "In talks to sell" on May 16, 2011.
On May 31, 2011 the sale was final.
On June 21, 2011 they officially relocated and were renamed to the Jets.
https://www.espn.com/nhl/news/story?id=6610414

So... yeah, if a city has an arena and the transaction can be done... I guess it could happen over this summer.

[2014olympicgold]

DIdn't Meuelo buy the team in 2019? Would he really be done with ownership after 4 yrs?

[Pengwin7]

I think when an owner can say "I bought this team with a plan to improve it... and the public did not support my plan"... then he should be permitted opportunity to move or sell.
I think Bettman, as an owner representative, would say "Fair. If the community doesn't support a hockey team, then you need to be permitted to move or sell."


Really - it was a bad spot for everybody... for the Yotes, Arizona people, and ownership.

The people know the owner is garbage and they won't support it.
The owner can't improve the team without support.
And Bettman had to give an owner with deep pockets an opportunity.

For all we know... maybe this was all a brilliant masterplan by Bettman to look like he was "trying to save hockey in Arizona" and knowing he found an owner that could get them out.

I mean... we talk about conspiracy theories... but something either VERY GOOD or VERY BAD was going to happen with Meruelo and the Yotes.
And here we are.

[stevegamer]

DIdn't Meuelo buy the team in 2019? Would he really be done with ownership after 4 yrs?

If he can make money off the sale, sure.

He may have already made plenty of money, but that's uncertain, because pro sports franchises make money, but they say they don't. However Arizona may have a real issue making money, much more than the rest of them.

[2014olympicgold]

Well in 2021-22 they had their first operating positive income since before 2005-06 season (+5.8m income). So I would assume they are making money with the move to the smaller arena because they don't need to employ a lot of staff.

They are also worth $150m more than what Meruelo paid for it in 2019 ($450m in Dec2022). Money wise, it looks like the last 2yrs they've run the team pretty well when it comes to money.

[Pengwin7]

Well in 2021-22 they had their first operating positive income since before 2005-06 season (+5.8m income). So I would assume they are making money with the move to the smaller arena because they don't need to employ a lot of staff.

They are also worth $150m more than what Meruelo paid for it in 2019 ($450m in Dec2022). Money wise, it looks like the last 2yrs they've run the team pretty well when it comes to money.

Well, in fairness, if you look at charts/graphs - you have to be cautious with the 2020 and 2021 calendar years - as those were greatly affected by COVID losses.
Then you have to consider that following COVID there was major inflation spikes on valuations of everything.
Operating income could be as much as... well... apparently Meruelo wasn't paying all his due bills (google that).
If you make the "numbers look good", you also make your own valuation rise.

(Shit, my own house has gone from a Zillow value of $200k in 2020 to $380 currently... and, trust me, it ain't because I'm doing anything special!!!)

yotes stuff.png



As further proof, check this article for general NHL operating income:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoza...h=53e218ab7deb

It's not just the Yotes... its everybody.

#30 overall: Buffalo ($20m operating income in 2022)
#31 overall: Florida
#32 overall: Arizona

sabres stuff.png

[2014olympicgold]

Well, in fairness, if you look at charts/graphs - you have to be cautious with the 2020 and 2021 calendar years - as those were greatly affected by COVID losses.
Then you have to consider that following COVID there was major inflation spikes on valuations of everything.
Operating income could be as much as... well... apparently Meruelo wasn't paying all his due bills (google that).
If you make the "numbers look good", you also make your own valuation rise.

(Shit, my own house has gone from a Zillow value of $200k in 2020 to $380 currently.)

yotes stuff.png

I always just figured that they were losing money having 8,000 people in a 18,000 seat arena, and selling out a smaller venue had their operating costs WAY down. I could very well be looking at it too surface level.

Very true P7

[Invictus]

Maybe they will move them to Toronto...
I've heard they've been wanting an NHL team for a long time.

[LawMan]

So... what's the path forward?

Shit I (honestly) don't know.
1. What is more likely - that Arizona plays in Arizona for 2023-24 or somewhere else?
2. What is more likely - that Arizona plays in Arizona for 2024-25 or somewhere else?
3. Does the Arizona ownership get to "sell" at this point? To anywhere they wish? Or do they get to "move"? To anywhere they wish?
4. Does Bettman have any right to help or force transition? (I assume the NHL ownership group gets vote/say in what the Yotes do.)

I mean... the "where", to me, isn't as interesting as "what can/will ownership do? in the coming months"

Looking at the NHL Constitution, as well as past relocations and sale, and news reports. My understanding is as follows:

1. Sale of a team requires approval from 3/4s of Board of Governors
2. Relocation requires an application. that application is due on January 1st the season before relocation is to occur (so missed deadline for next season) unless the Board of Governors approves a later date.
a. The factors to consider when determining whether relocation is suitable are lengthy:….
there are approximately 24 factors listed, and basically boils down to: is this good for: the team, other teams, the league, the game, the players ?
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...-nhl-franchise
this article lists the 24 factors the NHL considers during a relocation bid.

3. Successful Relocation requires a ¾ approval from the other Board of Governors
a. Further, all teams have a territory veto. If a team is wanting to move into a current teams territory (Leafs includes Hamilton) said team (Leafs) has a veto, which is essentially overcome with a relocation fee/bribe.

So, relocation and sale are separate items and either can happen with or without the other. Practically both would happen together as the Coyotes owner likely wants out and each City that is on the short list has a presumed owner lined up whom only wants to own the team in his designated City. In theory it could be move first, then a sale but that does not make sense.

Further, in theory a sale can happen without a relocation, but like, why would anyone buy the current Coyotes without a guarantee of relocation ???

4. Assuming for the sake of argument that the Native lands arena deal is also dead, and a relocation of the Coyotes is inevitable each party likekly looks at it as follows:
a. Coyotes owner – probably wants out. The 5k seat arena is not a long-term plan. Further, he likely does not want to own the team in another City, get out and get what you can for it.
b. New potential purchaser (whether SLC, Houston, KC) only willing to buy if it can relocate the team to desired City.
c. Other owners – presumably want to move the team out of Arizona given the 5k arena and no alternative plan in place. Individual teams would protect their territory but no territory invading option is seriously being offered.
d. NHLPA- (does not get a vote) probably not opposed to relocation in a general sense. Arizona is hurting HRR (and thus the cap and escrow) and I doubt the players love Mullet arena. Some individual Coyote players may like it but overall a move is good for the NHLPA.

So, the Arizona owner can sell to anyone which can garner 3/4s approval. And either the current or a new owner can move the team to any City (non-territory) that can garner 3/4s approval. In theory Bettman can want one location, and the owner another location, and the votes would carry the day.

Practically, I think Bettman has all the power here. Bettman seems to run a pretty tight ship and control his owners closely. Rarely do individual owners speak out against league decisions in the NHL (this happens occasionally in the NFL, or MLB). If and when Bettman throws in the towel in Arizona he will go around to the various City options and have meetings, review proposals, and pick a favorite. Then, one favorite will be presented to the Board of Governors for approval, and given the current situation I would think a relocation and sale would be approved. Before an option is presented, behind the scenes there will be a lot of jockeying and politicking as the top choices try and gain Bettman’s seal of approval but I cannot see more than one City being presented or voted on in a formal setting.

[4T2]

Maybe they will move them to Toronto...
I've heard they've been wanting an NHL team for a long time.

But then where will Matthews sign when he’s UFA?

[tweetdrivr]

Confirmed they are playing in Mullett next year…

https://twitter.com/fox10phoenix/sta...5NaU2ouo3loIww

[rataylor22]

Confirmed they are playing in Mullett next year…

https://twitter.com/fox10phoenix/sta...5NaU2ouo3loIww

It’s only May. It’s certainly what they’re saying publicly, and I think it’s >50% chance they play at Mullet next year, but this also could just be the league trying to quiet the noise best they can until the playoffs are over.

[tweetdrivr]

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/stat...5NaU2ouo3loIww