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Thread: League Damaging Moves

  1. #46
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    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by GinFizz View Post
    im so freaking lost. not sure why i put myself thru reading that..
    There’s a couple of hours you won’t get back.
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  2. #47
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    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    Kubalik and Raanta for Shane Wright is indefensible in the league format that you describe.
    You just finish attacking a gm for an 8-1 deal that included a very good young d man and few solid prospects.

    Then Kubalik and Raanta for Shane Wright gets brought up and you DEFEND it? Kubalik is a career half a point a game player but because he had a couple multi point games in a row to start the year he is a possible 100 point guy? He wasn't even a point a game guy in junior!!! Find me a single forward that went from being well under a point a game in junior hockey to producing more than a point a game in the NHL in any season. I hope you do find one because it would be an interesting study.

    Then.....33 year old Raanta who is a career backup/1b at best. He has started over 40 games 1 time in his entire career. One time!

    and you received Shane Wright. Shane....Wright.

    The slafkovsky trade is defendable but this trade is atrocious.

  3. #48
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    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    Yes I defend it- he was scoring at over 100 point pace for over two months- the last two players to go on runs like that out of nowhere as far as I knew were terry and tage flicking Thompson. Hes not a guy I was in a rush to move. Raanta is raanra I just explained why he had value.

    And you made the argument for me at least ist not 16 and some pocket lint) for one elite player. Its two (read:two!) Players who got to a value the other gm was happy with! I said I like Wright but if you're painting him as an elite gamebreaker offensively you're in a small club.

    I defended that I would consider the trade at the time if I were the OP. I said the trade has "some hope" for the future but today it hasn't panned out optimally for the other side. That being said its a little early to get out the torches and pitchforks.

  4. #49
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    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by tweetdrivr View Post
    There’s a couple of hours you won’t get back.
    It took you a couple hours to read 6 paragraphs?? No wonder you don't chime in on the long/thinky posts...

  5. #50
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    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Brianbrain View Post
    Kubalik and Raanta for Shane Wright is indefensible in the league format that you describe.
    You just finish attacking a gm for an 8-1 deal that included a very good young d man and few solid prospects.

    Then Kubalik and Raanta for Shane Wright gets brought up and you DEFEND it? Kubalik is a career half a point a game player but because he had a couple multi point games in a row to start the year he is a possible 100 point guy? He wasn't even a point a game guy in junior!!! Find me a single forward that went from being well under a point a game in junior hockey to producing more than a point a game in the NHL in any season. I hope you do find one because it would be an interesting study.

    Then.....33 year old Raanta who is a career backup/1b at best. He has started over 40 games 1 time in his entire career. One time!

    and you received Shane Wright. Shane....Wright.

    The slafkovsky trade is defendable but this trade is atrocious.
    Lmfao!!! One post just joined for this!!! Ok flash- your best argument is that slaf trade was good but this is bad??



    Weeeeeaaaaaaakkkkkkkk

  6. #51
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    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting_Emu View Post
    Lmfao!!! One post just joined for this!!! Ok flash- your best argument is that slaf trade was good but this is bad??



    Weeeeeaaaaaaakkkkkkkk
    EmuÖwhen youíre defending that Wright trade but totally lambasting a trade that in my opinion and clearly many members of this forumís opinion was just as fairÖyou are looking for attacking points. Donít justify your kubalik for Wright trade when we have a Durzi/Lekkerimaki for the oft injured/suspended kane. Cmon man either admit the kane trade is just as legit as yours or stop justifying your trade but you canít have it both ways. Weíve all made trades we thought we got away as bandits itís ok. But donít call someone elseís trade out when yours was just the same. Personally Iím not high on Shane Wright or Evander (because of injury and attitude). But you gotta come back to reality man. If you think that trade was bogus nobody can change your opinion but your kubalik and Raanta isnt much better man. So either accept both or condemn both but you canít accept yours and not his. Hypocritical man. Cmon youíre smarter than that I think youíre just upset he called out a trade public ally though he did leave you anonymous so you gotta give him that! You made it not anonymous!! Dobber Anonymous should be a new thread hahaha.

  7. #52
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    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    I had a whole thing written but I just deleted it cause I'm actually done with this lol!

    My trades represent a risk. In every case there was risk involved. Risk that kubalik was breaking out. Risk that any of the many hit pieces on wrights character and attitude issues were actually right and he was on a downward trajectory early on in his young career. Had the trade went the other way- I wouldn't expect a do over- and if anyone else still insists this is a league damaging move you're entitled to your opinion.

    I dont believe there was any real risk at all involved in OPs trades. I don't think it was sour grapes but in any situation where 2 impact assets are added for 15 I think it warrants raising an eyebrow. I tried to articulate that they were problematic for me because they basically couldn't lose (and rarely broke even) and that I dont believe they'd plausibly be considered by OP. If those factors are not an issue for anyone reading this- again thats their opinion and fair enough- I've said my bit.

    I think in a less active/engaged league this kind-of thing might pose further issues down the line (which was why I asked for feedback on here initially) but in a strong league like ours I dont imagine thats an issue. I think the other GMs will grow their teams and continue to educate themselves- and I imagine those of us who were prone to making bad decisions will implement safeguards to caution against making them again- i know i did. I think the forum.agreed that if their was no collusion (and their wasnt)- then its time.to.suck it up buttercup and on this I do agree.

    I've said it before ill say it again- OP is a fantastic asset to the league- hes knowledgable, engaged, enthusiastic and is a fierce competitor all around. I did consider these trades an issue but at this point its overblown like crazy and the pros with being in a league with a gm like this far outweighs this small con anyways.

    I think we'll be fine but im thankful for the feedback anyways- it clarified the issue for me and although I don't agree with the way my trades are characterized here I do admit there was evidence compelling enough to at least consider as my team moves forward and tries to salvage some semblance of trade relations. If I came accroas as frustrated at times I apologize- not a perfect poster.

    Thanks again- cheers...

  8. #53
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    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    Nobody in their right mind thought kubalik was 110 point player let alone 80 points. NOBODY! Cmon Emu thatís a ridiculous statement you know it is man.

  9. #54
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    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting_Emu View Post
    I think we'll be fine but im thankful for the feedback anyways- it clarified the issue for me and although I don't agree with the way my trades are characterized here I do admit there was evidence compelling enough to consider as my team moves forward and tries to salvage some semblance of trade decorum.
    For what it's worth, I think you did well. Nothing egregious about your trades and the ones you brought up could be viewed as similarly lopsided depending on how you view them. E Kane seems like a very good fantasy asset in a league with so few starts. When he plays - he'll contribute a bunch in Edmonton; when he's on IR, someone else will play in his place.

    I find it tough to judge trades in our own league where I'm familiar of the history, the managers and the rules. Imho, there's little chance people outside the league can judge better than those inside.

  10. #55
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    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    Quote Originally Posted by DangerCat View Post
    Nobody in their right mind thought kubalik was 110 point player let alone 80 points. NOBODY! Cmon Emu that’s a ridiculous statement you know it is man.
    Saying he was 110 and point player would be ridiculous- i didnt- i literally said when he was scoring at 110 point pace we thought he could be an 80 or even 90 point player and that was 100% the case. There are posts with that very debate going on where im saying that on these boards and the response is generally split- there are receipts out there. The last two players i saw go on a run like that were terry and tage thompson and neither had a ridiculous run in junior to my knowledge- i had passed on both only to watch them blossom.into stars in no time flat- I certainly didn't want to be holding onto a ayer like that and end up "flipping him for youth"- a concept im dogged for on here constantly. Kubalik had already shown he had at least 60-70 point talent and this pace wasn't for a week or two it was for over 2 months. If you were sleeping on kubalik it'd be easy to charactwrize it like this but that simply was NOT the case.

    If he stayed at that pace I dont get a refund and I promised you its happened that way too. I literally just traded Morrissey AND Hronek AND a high pick for blackwood last year...

  11. #56
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    Not trying to stir the pot but one last thing occurs to me that I probably should have said earlier.

    It IS true that this owner and I have a long and storied trade history! I actually think thats a good thing. I LOVE this league but I do wonder why people are so reticent to trade? Whatever the reason is you dont get a lot of owners who are willing to risk it. Ive had many trade negotiations get to the point where the other GM agrees the piece coming in is the right fit, they agree the value going out is right... and they STILL wont do it- lol!

    This GM and I get along well because hes not afraid to take a gamble if he thinks he can come out ahead and hes not always forcing the conversation towards a blockbuster- hes content to bet on mid tier assets and so am I so we maybe get more deals done then some others do.

    BUT

    These trades absolutely go both ways! I dont have to look far for a tangible comparison either! Literally last year I traded my Jeff Skinner for his Josh Anderson!!! Amnd there was no takey backsy's- lol! This is a very sog heavy league and I had decided to move on from Skinner and did not get much at all in terms of a response so without a conversation first I just sent out Skinner for Josh Amderson early last year and I was actually startled how fast he accepted with no note attached- haha!! I think that trade absolutely WAS indefensible... only Im the one that sent it!!! :P

    Characterizing this relationship as predatory or "dipping into the well" or whatever was said there- its just not accurate. We do make a lot of trades but hes also been clear about what hes willing to move and what he isnt. The way I found out Slafkovsky might even be avalaible is that I was shopping Necas to a few owners (a move these boards LOATHED) and I was adamant (doubly so with the pressure from my friends here!) on getting a strong return if I did opt to move him and to me that literally meant three returning futures. My ask was Gauthier/Slaf and a first- Im aware that thats a lot to ask but I was not sure I wanted to even move Necas. We got close- basically those pieces with a second but as I was considering he pulled out because he did not want to move Gautheir. Cutter is a prospect whose stock seems to be on the rise this year and I think that was noted by this GM. We (sort of) discussed alternatives to Gauthier but him not specifying Slaf here was what I took note of. If you follow prospects quite a bit- then you know this as not a great year for Slafs percieved value. While it may be too soon to draw any hard conclusions about his future poolies were not thrilled when he couldnt find a way to score or even stick on a socirng line, they werent thrilled with how much time he spent on the fourth line and they werent thrilled with his injury (or the severity of it). My whole point is to say I took advantage of some supposed lack of prospect knowledge isnt even fair- I think being relatively "in tune' with whats happening on his farm was probably what predicated him moving Slafkovsky and calling off a trade that was focused on Gaouthier or a first this year. Both those assets stock seemed to have improved this year wheras Slafkovskys probably dipped at least in terms of how its percieved. This GM has also exnayed trades right out of the gate where I targetted Othmann or Lundell. when I was pursuing Nils Lundqvist (whose sort of a fringe guy if were being honest)- we went back and forth many times before we settled on a deal.

    But yea thats it- the trades with this GM go both ways (he got my Skinner!) and if youre asking me hes extremely knowledgable about prospects/projects/futures...

  12. #57
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    C'mon man

    "The GM in question is a former champion, smart, and a fun guy overall to have in the league (despite well more than his fair share of trade spamming).

    The other GM is stuck in a rut and has been in the bottom of the league for years."

    It would seem the reason he's been in the bottom of the league for years is because of the better GM's are ripping him off for guys like Dominik kubalik scoring at 110 point pace for 4 games.

  13. #58
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    The Great One

    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    Why are you pretending your not in this league? You've got two posts and they're both in this thread- to quote you so eloquently...

    Cmon man

    And its not the same team bud and honestly that's just some colorful language from OP- that GM missed the payoffs by two spots this year. The guys he traded so egregiously to me were slafkovsky and hughes- neither of which would have helped him in the least in that regard.

    Was this directed at OP? That awesome more sense...

  14. #59
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    Default Re: League Damaging Moves

    By that logic Emu, Hunter McKown very underrated prospect for CBJ is scoring at an 82pt pace!!!

  15. #60
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    By what logic? I posted several paragraphs. If you mean the kubalik thing- then keep your head in the sand. I literally just gave an example with the same gm where that didn't happen in skinner. It goes both ways and that has nothing to do with good gms vs bad gms- its says a lot more about their risk aversion or lack of it. The kubalim thing could have went either way- when a guy scores 120 points over that period you start looking at them differently. If you don't want to- dont...

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