Another mass shooting...

[Atomic Wedgy]

Even if ban the sale of assault weapons, if people want to obtain them, they will be able to.

Al Capone was still able to get people alcohol when it was banned.

Businessmen will find a way a workaround to continue to make money and customers who desire them will continue to find a workaround.

For every Elon Musk that is creatively doing something new and unique to improve the world - there is someone at the opposite end of the spectrum that is creatively find a way to make money in some sort of illegal capacity.

So that means you should try and legislate it? Bad guys will get guns anyway, so lets just let everyone have guns. Its a ridiculous argument. You cant say that things wouldnt be more difficult than heading down to your local gun store. If its more difficult, it will save lives. Thats what we are talking about here arent we?

[Atomic Wedgy]

This x1000.

Stop making Celebrities - whether it's actor/actresses, music artists, athletes etc the role models for your kids. Sure there are many great one's who provide great values, but how is a child suppose to distinguish which of those to follow and which of those to avoid admiring? I can't speak for other countries, but North American culture has glamorized guns through video games, music, tv/movies. When that's the content you're allowing your kids to consume on a daily basis, how can you be surprised by the end result? As a parent, don't allow your 10 year old child to play Call Of Duty. Don't allow them to watch Narcos, or the newest James Bond movie. Stop allowing that 8 year old to watch his pro streamer play endless hours of FPS's. "But Fortnite is a cartoon, so it's okay if they play it!" Sure, whatever keeps little Johnny out of your face for an hour or two, right?

The simplest response is the one that is something you SHOULD be doing regardless of societal issues - Raise your children.

The issue is, that takes time and effort, and isn't something you can fix with a retweet or a like to FEEL like you're doing something to start the change.

While they are at it, cant the poor people just start making some more money? Get it together people. /s Guess what. Some people suck. Some people hate their children. Some people are raised by drug addicts and sex criminals. Some people are raised by racists. Some people just get caught up in conspiracy theories. Just raise your children..... Have you met people? Yer asking people to do the right thing? lol That is such a naive view of life.

[Atomic Wedgy]

Has anyone ever driven over the speed limit? How easy is it to break that law.

Drinking and driving? I bet it happens a million times a day in the states.

Cocaine is it illegal to purchase? How many people illegally obtain drugs on a daily basis in the states?

Sure stricter gun laws will make it more difficult... but the mafia or those types of 'businesses' are still gonna find a way to get the illegal guns into people's hands that want them.

Yup. Maysil give up. Nothing we can do here. Sorry kids. Can I suggest wearing bulletproof vests to school? Here's a gun for you. Try and kill him before he kills you.

[Invictus]

An immediate country wide ban on all Assault rifles and handguns will not only cause increase in violence and crime, it will also make guns EASIER to obtain.

I think a more strategic approach will produce better results.
AR/Handgun bans in a select few States. States chosen based on least resistance and predicted success of gun related crime decreasing.
Then as it's shown to work - minds will be changed. Over time other States can adopt such policies with much less resistance.

[forumname]

An immediate country wide ban on all Assault rifles and handguns will not only cause increase in violence and crime, it will also make guns EASIER to obtain.

I think a more strategic approach will produce better results.
AR/Handgun bans in a select few States. States chosen based on least resistance and predicted success of gun related crime decreasing.
Then as it's shown to work - minds will be changed. Over time other States can adopt such policies.

I think your slow state-by-state approach is probably a good idea, but how would a country-wide ban result in guns being easier to obtain?

[Invictus]

I think your slow state-by-state approach is probably a good idea, but how would a country-wide ban result in guns being easier to obtain?

I will take this excerpt from Wikipedia (so professional I know)

The Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits certain classes of people from buying, selling, using, owning, receiving, shipping, carrying, possessing or exchanging any firearm or ammunition.[1][38] Those prohibited include any individual who:

has been convicted in any court of a "crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year";[39]
is a fugitive from justice;
is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act,[40] codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);
has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been involuntarily committed to any mental institution;
is an illegal alien (i.e. any person who is unlawfully in the United States[41]);
has been lawfully admitted as an alien under a nonimmigrant visa and is not exempt under 18 U.S.C. § 922(y)(2);[42]
has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
has renounced his or her United States nationality (i.e., became a foreign national);
is subject to a court order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of the intimate partner; or
has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

These categories are listed on ATF Form 4473 – Firearms Transaction Record background check form.[43] According to the US Sentencing Commission, approximately 5,000 to 6,000 prohibited people a year are convicted of receiving or possessing a firearm.[44] In 2017, over 25.2 million background checks were performed.[45]

Banning guns will not stop the demand for guns. Organized crime will grow to fill the void and now control all of the market (with it bringing increase in crime).
They aren't going to care about all that above. No wait time, no background checks, no age restrictions (if one was put in place).

So if we're aiming at decreasing the 15-24 age group (school shooting age group) (2nd highest gun related death age group in USA (1st is 25-34)) then I believe it would make it easier.

I had thought that it was restricted to age 27 and up... but doesn't seem the case with Texas.

So in conjunction with a slow rollout state-state approach also put age restriction to something like 24 and see how that works. It seems you can buy a gun sooner than purchasing alcohol...

[GinFizz]

Whos is this organized crime that you speak of? In this scenario, with a ban on handguns and assault rifles in place, a teenager with a desire to shoot up a school or a public place will go to someone associated with organized crime and buy one from them?

Is that what you are suggesting will happen?

[als_revenge]

Whos is this organized crime that you speak of? In this scenario, with a ban on handguns and assault rifles in place, a teenager with a desire to shoot up a school or a public place will go to someone associated with organized crime and buy one from them?

Is that what you are suggesting will happen?

I suppose teenagers also don't obtain drugs from anywhere, given that drugs are illegal and a teenager wouldn't by them from a thug or a drug dealer?

With the proposals for banning guns, what is the response to the fact people can just 3D print them these days?

[Rylant]

I suppose teenagers also don't obtain drugs from anywhere, given that drugs are illegal and a teenager wouldn't by them from a thug or a drug dealer?

With the proposals for banning guns, what is the response to the fact people can just 3D print them these days?

That's a bit of a grasp to me. Yes, there will still be some people who will really go out of their way to get a gun and will succeed, whether it be obtain it illegally or 3D Print it. So you would make it illegal and fine them.

A lot of what is going on with gun deaths in the US, is due to the wide availability of them. This isn't just the mass shootings. It's the time where 2 alpha A men who are in a minor traffic accident and each have a gun, it's the time the 5 year old boy accidentally killed his sister with a gun, it's the thousands of gun suicides every year. Remove the guns in those situations, and they are much less deadly. There are so many heat of the moment situations which become life and death situations in the US, because there was a gun 5 feet away.

Top it off, with the mass shootings. Would this guy in Uvalde go out of his way to illegally obtain guns or 3D print guns to do the same thing if guns weren't so easy to obtain? Maybe. Even though a ban on guns will not prevent ALL of these situations, I promise you, it will prevent some of them.

Rylant

[Invictus]

Top it off, with the mass shootings. Would this guy in Uvalde go out of his way to illegally obtain guns or 3D print guns to do the same thing if guns weren't so easy to obtain? Maybe. Even though a ban on guns will not prevent ALL of these situations, I promise you, it will prevent some of them.

It will prevent less incidents than the crime increased due to growth in organized crime / gun trafficking, and other reasons. Not in all geographical locations, but as a whole.
(Though I think setting age restriction at say 24 will go a long way in regards of decreasing school shootings without much negative effects. I previously thought they already had an age restriction at 27, but I was wrong)

It's not as easy as "just ban guns and it will go away"
The demand doesn't just go away. To really fix the issue you need to eliminate (as much you can) the demand. This will take years.

Do you imprison those who carry illegally?
US penal system already at high rates. Higher incarceration rate just leads to higher crime rate.

Whos is this organized crime that you speak of? In this scenario, with a ban on handguns and assault rifles in place, a teenager with a desire to shoot up a school or a public place will go to someone associated with organized crime and buy one from them?

Same groups that already put illegal guns or drugs on the streets. Will fill the demand.

"Let's kick the ballistics here: Ain't no Uzi's made in Harlem. Not one of us in here owns a poppy field."

[Rylant]

It's not as easy as "just ban guns and it will go away"
The demand doesn't just go away. To really fix the issue you need to eliminate (as much you can) the demand. This will take years.

Literally nobody is saying "just ban guns and it will go away". I, will state as a fact however, "Just ban guns, and these instances will get less frequent."

And no question, the idea of banning guns isn't simple. The question of "how are we going to do it", "how are we going to maintain it", "how will it be enforced" and "how do we implement this without civil war" need to be asked and there is no easy answer. I will say thoughts and prayers and saying nothing can be done because of the constitution, doesn't seem to be working. I don't doubt that nothing will be done, however. The moment Sandy Hook occurred and people decided that children being slaughtered was preferrable to engaging gun control was the moment that hope for a solution with this kind of thing, was pretty much lost.

Rylant

[Invictus]

I, will state as a fact however, "Just ban guns, and these instances will get less frequent."

To clarify:
Are you saying just ban guns (*implying doing it everywhere (in USA) and immediately*), and these instances will get less frequent?

Because that's usually what people imply when they say it, but you bring up solid questions to think otherwise.

[blayze]

The US should borrow a page from Australia - they moved quickly and decisively after the 1996 massacre of 35 people at a cafe. The government banned semi automatics and shotties almost overnight. Now it's one of the safest places in the world. Granted, the US political system is much more divided than AU and lobbyists have considerably more funding and political clout.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...ound-the-world

[tweetdrivr]

The Australian example is a good one. But Australians are reasonable by in large and there wasn’t a 2nd amendment debate. Australia also has 25 million people and the US has 329 million.

[blayze]

The Australian example is a good one. But Australians are reasonable by in large and there wasn’t a 2nd amendment debate. Australia also has 25 million people and the US has 329 million.

Yup.

I really have no faith that different levels of government in the US will be able to put aside differences to make a real change here. The government and citizens are just too ****ed. Lobbyists have too much influence.