Russia and Ukraine conflict.

[Loch]

Yes, that's pretty much the PR driven statement type that toes the line that 2014OG was is referring to though.

World Peace is pretty popular opinion

Miss Congeniality?

[rataylor22]

FWIW, I don't think Ovechkin's very wealthy and very high profile family is in any danger even if Ovechkin spoke out strongly against Putin in this issue.

[Stifler]

FWIW, I don't think Ovechkin's very wealthy and very high profile family is in any danger even if Ovechkin spoke out strongly against Putin in this issue.

Well if you say so it must be true then.

[2014olympicgold]

FWIW, I don't think Ovechkin's very wealthy and very high profile family is in any danger even if Ovechkin spoke out strongly against Putin in this issue.

Weren't panarins familys safety in question when he called out Putin

[dejeanneret]

Okay so many of President Putin's 'justifications' have been deemed false or irrational. I'm curious to his real reasons / motifs.

Is it that he still sees Ukraine as part of "Russia" (or at least should be) or is it something else I'm missing? (Oh I'm definitely missing things)

(This is directed to anyone that wishes to answer, not just solely to rataylor22 who provided me the source of info)

So yeah, from what I've read and who I've spoken with (one person with some pretty significant experience and involvement with Eastern European geopolitics in the late 90s and early 2000s, who still has significant contacts there and is way, way more knowledgable about this than me), the issue really is twofold.

I tend to think of it a bit like early 1930s Germany meets early 1960s Cuba.

The first issue is a strident belief of Putin's that Ukraine and Russia are inextricably linked historically and culturally. He's long viewed the Soviet Union's collapse and splintering as an absolute disaster and national humiliation needing correction. Think Hitler's view of and public railing against the Treaty of Versailles, with claims that it stripped Germany of its rightful territory in Poland, Belgium, etc. and otherwise relegated it to second-class world citizen status. I'm not drawing direct or exact parallels between Hitler and Putin here; just using it as an example of the sort of nationalism that not only led to the rise of Nazism, but then drove Nazi Germany's initial justification for invading and reclaiming the Sudetenland immediately preceding WWII. As its been explained to me, that same type of overblown nationalism generally drives Putin's attitude towards Ukraine (and other former Soviet republics). So in this way, Putin views the reacclimation of Ukraine as part of Russia as Yeoman's work and natural -- a return to how things are meant to be.

The second issue, and it's related to the first, is Putin's overwhelming fear of NATO and the West's influence creeping further and further East. I can't remember if this was mentioned in the article cited above, but there's been some talk in the not-too-distant past about Ukraine potentially, some day, joining NATO. In addition to that signifying basically everything Putin loathes (and more or less permanently cementing the separateness of Ukraine from Russia), it also creates potentially signifiant security concerns. Ukraine shares a vast border with Russia, which I think in places may be as close as roughly 300 miles from Moscow. Moreover, Ukraine's location gives it important ports along the Black Sea (access to which Putin secured for Russia by annexing Crimea in 2014-15). If that land were, more or less, to come "under control of the West" as a NATO ally, that would, in Putin's view, pose an incredible threat to Russian security. For this reason, the demands Putin gave to NATO and the West in December to avoid conflict in Ukraine reportedly included, among other things, sought after guarantees that neither Ukraine nor Georgia (another former Soviet republic south of Ukraine and bordering both the Black Sea on one side and Russia on the other) would ever be permitted NATO membership. If both were to join, Russia would essentially be choked off from the Black Sea, and there would now be a huge portion of land where NATO nations directly border Russia -- and other NATO nations such as the U.S. could ostensibly station forces a stone's throw from Russia itself. That demand was a non-starter from NATO's perspective, which is founded upon a sort of open invitation that anyone can join. So it was rejected out-of-hand. The Warsaw Pact served as the Cold War-era counterweight to NATO, and in many ways also insulated Russia geographically from the NATO threat. That Pact, of course, dissolved long ago with the collapse of the Soviet Union, and worse yet from Putin's perspective several former Warsaw Pact members (e.g., Poland, the former Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania) are now all NATO members. So Ukraine is one of the last real buffers between NATO/the West and Russia proper. In this sense, think 1960s Cuban missile crisis -- a significant threat to U.S. national security posed by the Soviet Union getting a friendly toe-hold much too close for comfort.

That's my understanding of it anyhow....

[Invictus]

Weren't panarins familys safety in question when he called out Putin

I think at first that was speculated (when the reason was unknown), but I think in the end it was allegations against Panarin himself (I don't think his family was threatened).

[rataylor22]

Weren't panarins familys safety in question when he called out Putin

Sure. But ultimately they were safe AND Panarin has a long history of opposing Putin.

Ovechkin....doesn't. They just aren't comparable situations.

[Mr. Guru]

Lol ^

[PenguinHunter]

Sure. But ultimately they were safe AND Panarin has a long history of opposing Putin.

Ovechkin....doesn't. They just aren't comparable situations.

Why are they not comparable? Because there last names don't start with the same letter.

I don't understand all the laws of comparison... how many similarities must be met before something can be considered a comparable situation.

NHL Player - Check
Russian born - Check
Elite Player - Check
Said something about Putin - Check

[rataylor22]

Well one started a fan club about Putin and has consistently praised and endorsed him at every turn while the other has done the complete opposite.

If you can't spot the difference that says quite a bit about you and none of it is positive.

[2014olympicgold]

I'd be scared about my family if I say anything against Putin if I'm Russian with family members in Russia still. Regardless of my relationship with Putin.

The guy who was the whistle blower for the steroid stuff had a close professional relationship with Putin and needed to go into witness protection.

But my stance would be staying out of putin since the start. Or getting my family out of there before talking. It's not a situation I'm envy of for sure.

[PenguinHunter]

Well one started a fan club about Putin and has consistently praised and endorsed him at every turn while the other has done the complete opposite.

If you can't spot the difference that says quite a bit about you and none of it is positive.

So when can we compare and when can't we compare? Do you want to right a book about it so that we all know the rules of when we are allowed to draw a comparison?

I will take a page out of your playbook

com·par·i·son

1. a consideration or estimate of the similarities or dissimilarities between two things or people.

And there always has to be a shot at the person's character when they disagree with you?

[rataylor22]

So when can we compare and when can't we compare? Do you want to right a book about it so that we all know the rules of when we are allowed to draw a comparison?

I will take a page out of your playbook



And there always has to be a shot at the person's character when they disagree with you?

Would point out that that obviously wasn't a shot at "character"

[PenguinHunter]

Would point out that that obviously wasn't a shot at "character"

Your comment wasn’t? Then what was it? Haha

If you can't spot the difference that says quite a bit about you and none of it is positive.

[Wonko]

Disclosure I am big fan of Ovi, so I am probably bias and want to hear what everyone else thinks. What do you make of his comments on the matter? My personal feelings are he's got family and friends in Russia, who knows what would happen if he spoke out about it, if he would be putting them in danger. I don't think it's easy for him but I think he will get roasted for not denouncing Putin.

Thoughts?

https://www.tsn.ca/washington-capita...utin-1.1764018

It is actually irresponsible of the media to pester Ovi with so many questions on this conflict. Of course he can't say anything bad about Putin or Russia. He would be putting himself, his friends and his family in a very unfavourable position.