Grubauer or Binnington next year

[bizzy]

Wondering who to keep at years end. I picked up Binnington as part of a larger deal and thought he could be my goalie for a couple years at only 27 years old. Then picked up Grubauer in our draft before start of year and hes by far the better goalie this year and on a better team, with our goalie stats as Wins/Shutouts- 2 pts each and then any added assists are bonus. Binnington still likely has a clear path to starts after signing, but does Grubauer now have the same clear path with a much better team?

Thoughts?

[janneywheels]

I'd definitely go with Grubauer. better team that will largely remain intact while Binnington has been mostly average since the Cup.

only issue with Grubauer is his injury history, but I'd take his high ceiling on him and the Avs the next few years (assuming he re-signs)

[rangerdanger]

I would go Binnington. Especially if you could sell Grubauer this season, because I don’t think he will ever have this good a year again.

Coming into the season, Grubauer and Francouz were basically supposed to be 1A and 1B prior to Francouz getting injured. Many outlets, like Yahoo, and myself lol, had Francouz ahead of Grubauer. And if he hadn’t gotten injured, I believe we would be talking about Francouz being awesome and a Grubauer being his very good, injury prone GK partner. Perhaps both of them are injury prone at this point. But either way, whenever Francouz, who’s only 30, returns, I think worse case scenario is a 50/50 split. And I personally think Francouz is a more talented GK. But that opinion is only based on one year of seeing Francouz play in the NHL.

Either way, given their relative ages, and the fact that Binnington will still be the clear top dog for the ?Blues for the foreseeable future, I would absolutely have to go with Binnington. And also because I think Binnington is the most talented of the two. I always go talent over team ability. And talent plus clear number 1 role for me beats anything Grubauer has to offer

The problem with picking a GK solely based on them being on the superior team, is that you could probably put any number of GKs in net for the Avs and they’d put up terrific numbers. Which means Grubauer is semi replaceable. Unless you could lock down the entire GK core in Colorado, meaning Francouz and maybe even Johansson now, like people do with RB and QB in fantasy football, you are buying, or in this case keeping a very situation specific piece rather than talent. And in this case, one that has, IMO, an even better GK behind him, who is only temporarily out of the picture due to injury.

So, I go Binnington for long term every day on this one.

Grubauer for this season, but beyond that, the situation is way too muddled to depend on him repeating what he’s doing now.

As an example. Mike Smith is also having a terrific year. Would you choose him over say, someone like Shesterkin, Price or even like Gibson?

[janneywheels]

Gotta disagree with Binnington being more talented than Grubauer. This year and last Binngingtons Sv% is .904 & .912. Both would be career lows for Grubauer.

[stevegamer]

Grubauer, assuming he stays in Colorado, it's not really close.

Binnington's ratios outside of his big year, would be poor for Grubauer.

[J0e Th0rnton]

I would go Binnington. Especially if you could sell Grubauer this season, because I don’t think he will ever have this good a year again.

Coming into the season, Grubauer and Francouz were basically supposed to be 1A and 1B prior to Francouz getting injured. Many outlets, like Yahoo, and myself lol, had Francouz ahead of Grubauer. And if he hadn’t gotten injured, I believe we would be talking about Francouz being awesome and a Grubauer being his very good, but older and injury prone GK partner. Perhaps both of them are injury prone at this point. But either way, whenever Francouz, who’s only 30, returns, I think worse case scenario is a 50/50 split. And I personally think Francouz is a more talented GK. But that opinion is only based on one year of seeing Francouz play in the NHL.

Either way, given their relative ages, and the fact that Binnington will still be the clear top dog for the ?Blues for the foreseeable future, I would absolutely have to go with Binnington. And also because I think Binnington is the most talented of the two. I always go talent over team ability. And talent plus clear number 1 role for me beats anything Grubauer has to offer

The problem with picking a GK solely based on them being on the superior team, is that you could probably put any number of GKs in net for the Avs and they’d put up terrific numbers. Which means Grubauer is semi replaceable. Unless you could lock down the entire GK core in Colorado, meaning Francouz and maybe even Johansson now, like people do with RB and QB in fantasy football, you are buying, or in this case keeping a very situation specific piece rather than talent. And in this case, one that has, IMO, an even better GK behind him, who is only temporarily out of the picture due to injury.

So, I go Binnington for long term every day on this one.

Grubauer for this season, but beyond that, the situation is way too muddled to depend on him repeating what he’s doing now.

As an example. Mike Smith is also having a terrific year. Would you choose him over say, someone like Shesterkin, Price or even like Gibson?

Strange. All the Avs fans in the ave section of hfboard call grubs the definite #1 and said francouz was bad in the playoffs, etc

[Swarley]

Grubauer for me

[Dover]

I would be really surprise if the AVS don’t extend Grub... If he stays in Colorado, he’s my pick and it’s not really close IMO

[hockeyrobot]

Grubauer, assuming he stays in Colorado, it's not really close.

Binnington's ratios outside of his big year, would be poor for Grubauer.

Agree with this. Grub for me.

[rangerdanger]

Strange. All the Avs fans in the ave section of hfboard call grubs the definite #1 and said francouz was bad in the playoffs, etc

Interesting, because as I suggested, yahoo and other outlets had Francouz ranked ahead of Grubauer by about 50 spots heading into the season. And the organization was saying it’s going to be a split.

And Francouz was very good in the regular season. The bubble was the bubble, kind of unique situation. And fans well, fans say a lot of things. Right now there’s thousands of Ranger fans calling Kakko a bust and fantasizing about trading him for “ name your 2nd line center”.

So, I’ll go with the organization, scouts, fantasy analysts and other analysts. No guarantees of course, but fans say a lot of dumb things. Especially when they’ve just lost a playoff series.

Again. In keeper leagues, talent over situation almost every time. Talent plus lack of challenge to playing time, even better.

Grubauer could easily be knocked down a peg next season. Binnington will keep being more talented regardless of team.

And Grubauer fairly substantial track record suggests he’s playing above his ability and having a career year. He’s been with the Avs for 3 seasons now, and this is the first time anyone has argued he should be chosen over a clearly superior keeper. Meaning, you pick Grubauer, you’re picking him based on outlying statistics, outlying form and lack of competition. Don’t think it’s a coincidence that Grubauer happened to turn into a “stud” the same year his direct competition goes down with an injury, leaving him with no one breathing down his back for playing time.

It’s an easy one for me. Next year I’m taking Binnington ahead of any current AvsGK because it’s almost a guarantee Avs GK will be splitting time and Binnington will be getting the lions share. And if I am picking any Avs GK next year, it will be Francouz, because he will have a ridiculously low ADP and everyone will be overpaying on Grubauer, for a year he won’t likely repeat. I think in fantasy circles, that’s called a bust.

Also, I tend to be suspicious of any player who had their “break out” so late after being in the league for near a decade. The answer there is simple, it’s the team he’s playing on, not the player, that is mostly responsible for that jump. Meaning, legitimate nhl goalies, (so not Miska or Johansson probably) would have similar success and a similar career year. Also meaning, Grubauer job won’t be safe if another GK steps up and plays well. Binnington won’t have that issue.

Out of curiosity, when did “all” the Avs fan say that? After Francouz was injured?

Further, did you look at last seasons regular season stats? In about equivalent starts, Francouz was the better GK across the board, statistically and in terms of win loss record. And it wasn’t really that close even. It was also Francouz first year in the NhL I think. Not so shocked he stumbled a bit in the bubble.

So if you really think the Avs were “definitive” about the career journeyman, being the clear number 1, over the shiny Euro toy they specifically brought in, who had, by any measure, a superior season compared with Grubauer, then I have a bridge you might like to buy. How often does an organization, decide that their inconsistent GK is the clear top dog over a player who had a much better season? I think the answer is never. There is no way they thought Grubs was the clear number 1. And the evidence is everywhere.

Regarding the playoffs, Francouz got injured his first game and still tried playing.... So, also not shocking an injured player looked out of step.

I’ll just say it one last time. The only reason Grubauer even has this opportunity, is because Francouz got injured. And he won’t be next season. I’ll take pretty much any secure starting GK over what will almost certainly be a split backstop situation for the Avs next year. A whole lot of folks are going to bite on Grubauer, and all of them will greatly regret it by about a month into the season.
But hey, do you.

[pmorrow]

I still have question marks around these two guys but I will go with Grubsy. He's showing he can handle a big workload. Still hasn't done it over the course of a full season, but his consistent play game after game has won me over. Although I don't think he's wildly better/more talented than Binnie - in fact he might not be and is just benefitting from a better situation. Start of the year I would have said Binnie though - I guess we will have to see in the offseason how these two look h2h.

[janneywheels]

gotta be a Blues fan, no way anyone else would think Binnington is more talented than Grubauer.

[rangerdanger]

gotta be a Blues fan, no way anyone else would think Binnington is more talented than Grubauer.

Rofl.

Says the guy who’s obviously only been watching the nhl for one season...

Have you looked at the past 8 years of Grubauer very average career? He’s 32 and you think this is the real Grubauer?

One good season out of 9 is not accurate representation of a players overall ability.

And I guess that means every scout, analyst, fantasy analyst is way wrong about this? Because no one ever questioned the FACt that Binnington is better than Grubauer until now.

I bet you think Grubauer is also more talented than Price? Because he’s having a better year....

And no, I’m a Ranger fan. Thought my name would have made that obvious.

But anyway, anyone who has actually watched both players over the course of their respective careers knows the answer...... and it’s absolutely not Grubauer. Binnington rookie year alone was better than any year Grubauer had up until this season.

And anyone who understands hockey realizes the team in front of him is the main reason Grubs is having this season. And similarly, the team in front of Binnington is the reason he’s had a rough year. If Binnington were on the Avs instead of Blues, we would be handing him the Vezina shortly.

Try actually watching the game instead of just watching the stat line. And gorging on the hype.

[janneywheels]

it so strange to me you consider Grubauers career to be average when he's finished every year leading up to this one with at least an above average Save %, while Binnington has been at or just below average last year and this one.

And before you point to the team in front of them as the reasoning for the difference in numbers, first consider that the Blues both last year and this one have been one of the NHLs best at shot suppression - these aren't very difficult minutes. Last year the Blues were the 2nd best team in the NHL at the time of the stoppage and Binnington actually stopped 4 goals LESS than he should have - Jake Allen actually outplayed him. this year Husso sucks and that's part of the reason they are fighting for a playoff spot, but Binnington is once again right around average. but we're supposed to believe he's a Vezina goaltender on an elite team (which they were last year and he got a single 3rd place vote)? and that's completely ignoring his horrid playoffs where he, once again, got outplayed by Allen (and Allen didn't even play well)

but the OP can just decide for themselves to listen to you or everyone else

[rangerdanger]

it so strange to me you consider Grubauers career to be average when he's finished every year leading up to this one with at least an above average Save %, while Binnington has been at or just below average last year and this one.

And before you point to the team in front of them as the reasoning for the difference in numbers, first consider that the Blues both last year and this one have been one of the NHLs best at shot suppression - these aren't very difficult minutes. Last year the Blues were the 2nd best team in the NHL at the time of the stoppage and Binnington actually stopped 4 goals LESS than he should have - Jake Allen actually outplayed him. this year Husso sucks and that's part of the reason they are fighting for a playoff spot, but Binnington is once again right around average. but we're supposed to believe he's a Vezina goaltender on an elite team (which they were last year and he got a single 3rd place vote)? and that's completely ignoring his horrid playoffs where he, once again, got outplayed by Allen (and Allen didn't even play well)

but the OP can just decide for themselves to listen to you or everyone else

What a disingenuous way to frame the argument. It's a lot easier to put up better SV% when you only play 22 games a season. Anyway, Binnington played more games his rookie year than Grub did any year until his 6th season in the league. Prior to that the most he played was 24.... His last year with Washington, 35 games, was only 3 more than Binnington played his rookie season, during the regular season. Because that was the year Binnington WON the Stanley Cup and was credited with half carrying his team to winning the cup with his amazing play. IN 26 post season games! More games than Grub ever played in a season in his first 5 years in the NHL. And yea, if you don't think Binnington had a great deal to do with the Blues winning that cup, just read the countless articles available online that state it as a matter of fact.

You will generally find that the more games a GK plays, the worse their statistics generally are, for various reasons. So Binnington played 58 games in total that rookie year, and combined had a better season than Grubauer has ever had, statistically or otherwise, until this season right now... And sure Binnington only played 50 games the next regular season. Where his record and stats speak for themself.

And all but one season that Grubauer played over 30 games, were his stats simply, "average" (actually they were pretty good, very similar to Binnington's. Which you claim are average, but are well above average actually).

And Grubauer himself has never even played more than 37 games in any of his 9 years in the NHL. And that was probably his 2nd worst season after his 36 game season, 2 out of the only 3 season's he has even played more than 28 games (28 is this year).

And we all ready discussed Francouz vs Grubauer. Francouz, who in his one and only full season in the NHL, put up far superior statistics to Grubauer, playing in about the same amount of games, for the very same team.
2019- 20
Francouz Reg 34 31 1914:26 21 7 4 77 2.41 919 996 .923 1
Grub Reg 36 36 2057:06 18 12 4 90 2.63 977 1,067 .916 2

So by your logic, Francouz must be the superior and more talented GK right? The stats are right there...

And yea, Grubauer stood on his head in the playoffs and got hurt. And then, as I stated, Francouz got hurt in his first playoff game, and was forced to continue playing because he was still better then the Avs next best option (Miska).

So, yea, Binnington and the Blues are having a down year, not surprising when you lose a guy like Pietrangelo. And not a coincidence MAF is having the best year of his career since his Pit days. And Grubauer is standing on his head, occasionally, having a career year, which he still probably will end up getting injured during, playing behind one of the best teams in the league.


How about this, next year when Francouz outplays Grubauer, or, if for some reason Francouz isn't there, Grubauer has a far regressed season either way, we can both come back here and you can tell me I was right, about everything. Later gator.