Any Employment Insurance questions out there?

[saucelife90]

My employer has cut work weeks from 5 days down to 4 (still open for all 5 days, but weÂ’re on a rotating schedule). TheyÂ’ve given us the option of taking the 5th day as either a vacation day, or an unpaid day. IÂ’ve asked HR if we qualify for the work sharing program and the response was no. My guess is either a) our revenue hasnÂ’t dropped the required 30%, or b) because we have salaried employees still making 100% of their pay, so not ALL employees have reduced work hours.

ThereÂ’s rumours going around that we may drop down to 3 days a week.

Is there a different program to apply to other than work sharing to top myself up? I donÂ’t want to start burning through vacation days if it will affect any potential program I may be eligible for.

[lucafen4]

My employer has cut work weeks from 5 days down to 4 (still open for all 5 days, but weÂ’re on a rotating schedule). TheyÂ’ve given us the option of taking the 5th day as either a vacation day, or an unpaid day. IÂ’ve asked HR if we qualify for the work sharing program and the response was no. My guess is either a) our revenue hasnÂ’t dropped the required 30%, or b) because we have salaried employees still making 100% of their pay, so not ALL employees have reduced work hours.

ThereÂ’s rumours going around that we may drop down to 3 days a week.

Is there a different program to apply to other than work sharing to top myself up? I donÂ’t want to start burning through vacation days if it will affect any potential program I may be eligible for.

There's nothing for you as an individual to apply for to make up the 1-2 days a week specifically.

it's either the work sharing program that EI has had for years. Here's the eligibility page for work-share program
https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...igibility.html


or the Emergency Wage Subsidy - which requires a 15% drop in revenue in March - 30% per month moving forward
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...e-subsidy.html

In both instances the employer applies first.

For Employment Insurance Reg. benefits - you need a break in employment of 7 consecutive days or more to apply. This excludes paid vacation, sick leave etc. 7 days of no work.

[saucelife90]

There's nothing for you as an individual to apply for to make up the 1-2 days a week specifically.

it's either the work sharing program that EI has had for years. Here's the eligibility page for work-share program
https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...igibility.html


or the Emergency Wage Subsidy - which requires a 15% drop in revenue in March - 30% per month moving forward
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...e-subsidy.html

In both instances the employer applies first.

For Employment Insurance Reg. benefits - you need a break in employment of 7 consecutive days or more to apply. This excludes paid vacation, sick leave etc. 7 days of no work.

Thanks, appreciate the response Lucafen.

According to my HR, we do not qualify for either Work-Sharing or Emergency Wage Subsidy. (Makes sense, we’re technically in the construction sector and month over month going forward is when we get busier. So even if our numbers vs our budget are down, our total sales won’t drop to meet the conditions for either program).

I guess this re-affirms the frustration our labourers & office staff are experiencing is justified. Expect to do the same amount of work with 16-32 less hours a paycheque, or burn through your vacation time. All whilst the salaries employees “working” from home continue to collect a pay, keep vacation, and aren’t putting their family at risk by having to go into the public everyday!

Just spitballing now, but wouldn’t it make more sense at that point to offer lay-offs to employees if they wish, to collect EI & take home ~5% less than what they would be making if they just continued to work 3 day weeks? Then give those extra hours they’re saving to employees to work those extra 1-2 days which would give them full-ish work weeks?

[lucafen4]

Thanks, appreciate the response Lucafen.

According to my HR, we do not qualify for either Work-Sharing or Emergency Wage Subsidy. (Makes sense, we’re technically in the construction sector and month over month going forward is when we get busier. So even if our numbers vs our budget are down, our total sales won’t drop to meet the conditions for either program).

I guess this re-affirms the frustration our labourers & office staff are experiencing is justified. Expect to do the same amount of work with 16-32 less hours a paycheque, or burn through your vacation time. All whilst the salaries employees “working” from home continue to collect a pay, keep vacation, and aren’t putting their family at risk by having to go into the public everyday!

Just spitballing now, but wouldn’t it make more sense at that point to offer lay-offs to employees if they wish, to collect EI & take home ~5% less than what they would be making if they just continued to work 3 day weeks? Then give those extra hours they’re saving to employees to work those extra 1-2 days which would give them full-ish work weeks?

Well... EI is normally 55% of your average weekly earnings with a max rate cut off at $573 per week.

Right now with the CERB it's set at $500 for everyone. If you work 40hrs a week normally at $20/hr = $800/week - 55% = $440 benefit rate (rough calculation) --
having hours cut by 20-40% (8 - 16 per week) Puts you down to an EI rate effectively.

If you had a 7 day break in work - you could work on top of your EI.
for every $1 you earn - EI deducts .50 (earn $400 - EI deducts $200 from your benefit rate) - up to a cut off point - then it becomes dollar for dollar until you can't be paid.

It does sound like your employer is trying to do what's best for everyone be loyal to the employees by keeping you all working and on payroll - at the same time I get the frustrations as an employee because there are other options out there that appear to at least give the same amount without working or top up programs that as you said your employer doesn't qualify for. It leaves you feeling in limbo - which sucks.

[forumname]

I have a CERB question that I'd appreciate some help on if anyone's willing and able (apologies if it's already been answered).

I'm a sole proprietor, and I'm still making some money through all of this but I'm curious about my CERB eligibility should that slow even further. I understand the new changes that allow a monthly income of up to $1000, but I'm unsure how that works in terms of timing. I provide business services, so my question is: when is income considered made? When I do the work? When I invoice for it? When I get paid? For example, If I worked on a project in February but get paid for it in April, is that February income or April income? How would you go about determining eligibility when it's not as clear cut as getting a regular paycheck?

[Rylant]

I have a CERB question that I'd appreciate some help on if anyone's willing and able (apologies if it's already been answered).

I'm a sole proprietor, and I'm still making some money through all of this but I'm curious about my CERB eligibility should that slow even further. I understand the new changes that allow a monthly income of up to $1000, but I'm unsure how that works in terms of timing. I provide business services, so my question is: when is income considered made? When I do the work? When I invoice for it? When I get paid? For example, If I worked on a project in February but get paid for it in April, is that February income or April income? How would you go about determining eligibility when it's not as clear cut as getting a regular paycheck?

So typically, normal earnings towards EI are calculated and applied against the week that you performed the work, regardless of when you received the payment. To be honest, self employment earnings are handled a little differently as they are reviewed outside of my level of authority. I would imagine that self employment earnings are considered the same way; counting in the week you do the work, not the week you receive payment or invoice the client, but I could be wrong. Lucafen4 and I both work for EI, but do different jobs. So perhaps he would have a better answer?

Also keep in mind that the CERB claims are being delivered by the Canada Revenue Agency. If you want to get a clearer answer, you may have to reach out to them. There is a lot of information on the canada.ca website, but I didn’t see anything that specifically answers your question. Sorry I wasn’t able to provide a definite answer. Lucafen4 has been awfully helpful in this thread providing a tremendous amount of expertise, so perhaps he will be able to flesh this out better than I was able to?

Rylant

[lucafen4]

So typically, normal earnings towards EI are calculated and applied against the week that you performed the work, regardless of when you received the payment. To be honest, self employment earnings are handled a little differently as they are reviewed outside of my level of authority. I would imagine that self employment earnings are considered the same way; counting in the week you do the work, not the week you receive payment or invoice the client, but I could be wrong. Lucafen4 and I both work for EI, but do different jobs. So perhaps he would have a better answer?

Also keep in mind that the CERB claims are being delivered by the Canada Revenue Agency. If you want to get a clearer answer, you may have to reach out to them. There is a lot of information on the canada.ca website, but I didn’t see anything that specifically answers your question. Sorry I wasn’t able to provide a definite answer. Lucafen4 has been awfully helpful in this thread providing a tremendous amount of expertise, so perhaps he will be able to flesh this out better than I was able to?

Rylant

I hate these, thanks Rylant. Was really hoping you'd just take it.

It really looks like your situation pertains to this part of the Digest: https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...t.html#a5_16_8

If you want a more detailed look at how we determine earnings and where/how they are allocated: https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...t.html#a5_16_0

is where the self-employment earnings section begins.

From the brief synopsis you gave, Rylant would be right - regardless of when you get paid it's allocated to when you weeks work was performed (see first link).

As he also said - that's for EI. I don't know how CERB through CRA is handling this.
From what I've heard about the CERB application on the CRA website... I don't know how they are even properly vetting work stoppages and loss of earnings.

I mean... one can easily surmise that you could answer the questions on the CRA website to get paid, rightly or wrongly - whatever the case may be....
The one thing I would really be wary about in trying to exploit that - there have been warnings on taking advantage of the CERB.
There's nothing out on what that means... but - people collecting fraudulently could see large monetary penalties on top of having to repay the entire CERB amount.

[ericdaoust]

FYI - CERB is being extended to include people that make a bit of income (under $1000 per month). Not all details are known yet but at least they're working towards addressing the gaps in the current eligibility rules.

[Rylant]

I hate these, thanks Rylant. Was really hoping you'd just take it.

It really looks like your situation pertains to this part of the Digest: https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...t.html#a5_16_8

If you want a more detailed look at how we determine earnings and where/how they are allocated: https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...t.html#a5_16_0

is where the self-employment earnings section begins.

From the brief synopsis you gave, Rylant would be right - regardless of when you get paid it's allocated to when you weeks work was performed (see first link).

As he also said - that's for EI. I don't know how CERB through CRA is handling this.
From what I've heard about the CERB application on the CRA website... I don't know how they are even properly vetting work stoppages and loss of earnings.

I mean... one can easily surmise that you could answer the questions on the CRA website to get paid, rightly or wrongly - whatever the case may be....
The one thing I would really be wary about in trying to exploit that - there have been warnings on taking advantage of the CERB.
There's nothing out on what that means... but - people collecting fraudulently could see large monetary penalties on top of having to repay the entire CERB amount.

LOL, sorry bud.

But you do bring up a great point about exploitation. Not suggesting that forumname was trying that, by any means, but it is something to be aware of. I know that this was thrown together very quickly with the intent of helping those in need right away, and easing the burden on the system of 3 million applications for EI in a relatively short period of time. I imagine, that after things return to some sort of "normal", EI and the CRA will start reviewing suspect claims. It will probably take years, but I expect an awful lot of overpayments to be generated in the future by claims that were paid out, but reviewed to not be entitled. Those claims which will be overpaid will be a combination of people intentionally exploiting, and people who thought they were doing it correctly, but weren't. I know that it sucks when EI contacts somebody to say "Hey, you remember that time you received that 4 thousand dollars from us? Well guess what, we have reviewed your claim and have come to the conclusion that you weren't entitled to it, and we want that money back..."

Rylant

[forumname]

Thanks guys, not the concrete answer I was hoping for (probably because that concrete answer doesn't exist) but very helpful nonetheless. Much appreciated.

And yes, I have no intention of trying to exploit any loopholes or anything. Just trying to assess ahead of time whether I'll be eligible for it should a time come where my work slows enough.

I imagine there are going to be TONS of people who just say "look, free money!" and then play the victim when they're asked to pay it back and don't have it...

[lucafen4]

Thanks guys, not the concrete answer I was hoping for (probably because that concrete answer doesn't exist) but very helpful nonetheless. Much appreciated.

And yes, I have no intention of trying to exploit any loopholes or anything. Just trying to assess ahead of time whether I'll be eligible for it should a time come where my work slows enough.

I imagine there are going to be TONS of people who just say "look, free money!" and then play the victim when they're asked to pay it back and don't have it...

those comments weren't directed directly at you.
With you sitting in kind of a grey area could easily be attributed to "I wasn't sure"
You wouldn't be asking if you can apply if you wanted to rip off the system.

but more about those out there that are intentionally applying for both with the knowledge they shouldn't be looking to collect 4k/mth tax free (for now).

Rylant's right. There's already systems in place for CRA & EI to share information. This will be expanded in a year or two from now and thousands will be nabbed.
I mean, it's not that hard -- CRA has a record of who received payment from them. EI issues T4E's to everyone that received payment from them.

There's also thousands out there that panicked... weren't clear on the rules, which they were eligible for and applied for both just to cover their asses in case one was denied.
We're going to see a lot of that as well.

My advice, if you mistakenly received BOTH - contact CRA immediately. Take the 2k extra you received and get a secure short term investment - GIC. It's going to take months to get the notice of debt before you can pay it back.

Notifying CRA of the extra payment should prevent any penalties on top of repaying the $$... might as well make some interest while you wait.
(this is the advice I've given co-workers who have been overpaid by our Phoenix pay system - sometimes it takes over a year before repayment can begin)

[butch]

They have lightened the requirement for doctor's notes in light of Covid-19. Keep in mind, they reserve the right to ask you for one at a later time. And there are still rare cases even today, where we do require a doctor's note. In your circumstance, Butch, they shouldn't require one at this time.

Rylant

I'm going back to work monday after self isolating x 2 weeks . I totally understand them requiring a doctors note but the ontario telehealth nurse didnt provide a reference number for a govt. official to refer to in the case . She didnt ask for health card number either , just my first/last name . I was lucky enough to get an over the phone fam doc appointment friday the 17th and he determined ''over the phone'' that all I have is a sinus infection so he sent in a prescription for antibiotics for 10 day run . I know he's busy as heck so I felt too guilty to ask for a doc note for work that could also be utiilized as proof to the govt . if asked for one in the future . He also said , go back to work which I have no issue with .At least worse case scenerio fam doc will have my telephone appt on record with prescription for sinus infection . I'm also only missing 2 weeks of work so I dont need 2,000 which is for 4 weeks I'll assume .

anyways . I'm sure I wont be only canadian without a doctors note and if I have to pay back the cerb pmt I will - I just wouldnt feel like paying a fine .

[lucafen4]

I'm going back to work monday after self isolating x 2 weeks . I totally understand them requiring a doctors note but the ontario telehealth nurse didnt provide a reference number for a govt. official to refer to in the case . She didnt ask for health card number either , just my first/last name . I was lucky enough to get an over the phone fam doc appointment friday the 17th and he determined ''over the phone'' that all I have is a sinus infection so he sent in a prescription for antibiotics for 10 day run . I know he's busy as heck so I felt too guilty to ask for a doc note for work that could also be utiilized as proof to the govt . if asked for one in the future . He also said , go back to work which I have no issue with .At least worse case scenerio fam doc will have my telephone appt on record with prescription for sinus infection . I'm also only missing 2 weeks of work so I dont need 2,000 which is for 4 weeks I'll assume .

anyways . I'm sure I wont be only canadian without a doctors note and if I have to pay back the cerb pmt I will - I just wouldnt feel like paying a fine .

Right now. Dr. note's are NOT required.

On the application it does say you may be asked to submit your medical note as proof of illness/injury at a future time.
Your appointment is on file with your dr. "IF" Service Canada ever asks for one. Call and obtain it then.

Realistically, there have been close to 4 million EI applications in the last 5 weeks.
Service Canada is going to ask for a Dr. Note from next to one over this past month.

[ericdaoust]

I'm back at work Monday. Is there a way to give my notice to Service Canada online? I heard the only way to do this was through the phone lines (yuck)

[lucafen4]

I'm back at work Monday. Is there a way to give my notice to Service Canada online? I heard the only way to do this was through the phone lines (yuck)

It will depend on where this falls in your next report.
If your report is due this weekend.
Do it.
Then don't do anymore.
Your claim will go dormant and you're done.
You'll receive your 2-week payment

If your report is do next week.
Do your report
Claim 'found work' for the 2nd week of your report.
The system will lock you out as you're not unemployed anymore
You'll be paid for week 1 of that report
and you're done.

You do not need to contact EI by phone.
The only way you get paid is by completing your reports.

If you don't complete them after 3 weeks your claim will go dormant and will lock you out of the reporting system.
If you were laid off between now and March 2021 - you would need to apply again which will reactivate that existing claim