The Coronavirus Pandemic

[Rylant]

I've stopped trying to call out Trump's endless hypocrisies and shameless attempts at gaslighting the public a long time ago. It just leads to pointless frustration.

It’s a great point. Let’s be real here, it doesn’t matter which side of Trump support you are on; you have already made up your mind. There is a ton of material out there displaying what kind of leader and person he is. it doesn’t matter what I say; I am never going to change a Trump supporter’s mind. I believe he is fragile, narcissistic, misogynistic, racist, homophobic and one of the most self-centred people I have ever been exposed to.

For me, he is hands down the worst president in US history, and that includes presidents who have owned slaves. It’s not that I am close-minded when I say that a Trump supporter won’t be able to change my mind, it’s that any one blurb that you might say won’t be able to outweigh the thousands of instances in Trump’s history that have helped form my opinion of him.

Rylant

[lucafen4]

It’s a great point. Let’s be real here, it doesn’t matter which side of Trump support you are on; you have already made up your mind. There is a ton of material out there displaying what kind of leader and person he is. it doesn’t matter what I say; I am never going to change a Trump supporter’s mind. I believe he is fragile, narcissistic, misogynistic, racist, homophobic and one of the most self-centred people I have ever been exposed to.

For me, he is hands down the worst president in US history, and that includes presidents who have owned slaves. It’s not that I am close-minded when I say that a Trump supporter won’t be able to change my mind, it’s that any one blurb that you might say won’t be able to outweigh the thousands of instances in Trump’s history that have helped form my opinion of him.

Rylant

Not a single thing here to disagree with... unless maybe you're a diehard Trump supporter then how can you not support him or say all those nasty things about him?


Does.....
Anyone else wonder what exactly Mike Pence does?
He has to be the quietest, most obscure V.P. in US History too.
Too busy working on his personal agenda's to bother with the public & media would be my guess.

[Axeman33]

Ya, you either love him or you hate him. Much like Alexander Keith's, those who love him, love him a lot. There may have been a few wishy-washy Republicans who are unsure, but those numbers wouldn't be great.

[GretzkysMullet]

WHO funding:

China Contributions 2019:
Assessed: $75,790,000
Voluntary: $10,189,000
Total: $85,979,000

US Contributions 2019:
Assessed: $236,912,000
Voluntary: $656,092,000
Total: $890,004,000

I think China is therefore the "callous" one, based on those facts.

I could care less about your obsession with China, and these pissing matches about who contributes more. What actually matters as that as of the time of this decision the WHO was depending on US funding to operate, and Trump decided to cut it during a global pandemic because he needs a scapegoat for his own failings. What actually matters is that people will die because of that decision. He could just as easily have made a decision like this before or after we are dealing with a global health crisis and the WHO could have sourced alternate funding, but of course that doesn't help with shifting blame. And, as you and others have pointed out, the only evidence provided to justify it was single tweet reporting findings in China early in the investigation of the virus that was later found to be inaccurate. Can you imagine if Trump was judged in the same way. My god.

[Auston'sWilly]

Here's some comedy in all this...

Trump cuts off WHO funding over a tweet on Jan 14 - 3 months later.

Meanwhile, Six weeks after WHO's Jan 14th tweet - Trump stood at a rally in North Charleston, South Carolina and referred to the Corona Virus as a "Hoax" ... if he thought it was a hoax 4 weeks after the WHO declares that CV-19 "constituted a Public Health Emergency of International Concern" - Jan 30th

^^^ This is the kind of misinformation that forces right and right-center folks to defend President Trump. Whether they want to or not. Otherwise, the fake news runs rampant.
And too many people blindly redistribute that fakeness. I apologize in advance if this gets me another warning - I do know I'm not supposed to disagree with a mod.
But what else can I do? Just accept the misinformation and not even try?
I mean seriously, this covid "hoax" narrative has been debunked. Ad nauseam.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...-rally-remark/

" What's False - Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax. "

[Axeman33]

^^^ This is the kind of misinformation that forces right and right-center folks to defend President Trump. Whether they want to or not. Otherwise, the fake news runs rampant.
And too many people blindly redistribute that fakeness. I apologize in advance if this gets me another warning - I do know I'm not supposed to disagree with a mod.
But what else can I do? Just accept the misinformation and not even try?
I mean seriously, this covid "hoax" narrative has been debunked. Ad nauseam.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...-rally-remark/

" What's False - Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax. "

You're allowed to disagree with a mod, as long as you do it respectfully. It's no different than disagreeing with another member on here. It's all about respect. There's nothing wrong with your disagreeing post that I can see.

[lucafen4]

^^^ This is the kind of misinformation that forces right and right-center folks to defend President Trump. Whether they want to or not. Otherwise, the fake news runs rampant.
And too many people blindly redistribute that fakeness. I apologize in advance if this gets me another warning - I do know I'm not supposed to disagree with a mod.
But what else can I do? Just accept the misinformation and not even try?
I mean seriously, this covid "hoax" narrative has been debunked. Ad nauseam.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...-rally-remark/

" What's False - Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax. "

We're in the business of making $500 000 000 decisions on a single tweet.

what about this one:


Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump Jan 24 Follow Follow @realDonaldTrump Following Following @realDonaldTrump Unfollow Unfollow @realDonaldTrump Blocked Blocked @realDonaldTrump Unblock Unblock @realDonaldTrump Pending Pending follow request from @realDonaldTrump Cancel Cancel your follow request to @realDonaldTrump











China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!


1:18 PM - 24 Jan 2020




You can't defend cutting off funding to the WHO right now. You can't. Especially over a single tweet where the rest of the WHO information in and around Jan. 14th supports them being concerned about spread.

I'm still waiting to hear what else Trump did to proactively prevent the spread of COVID other than banning travel. 430 000 people from China freely walking around US for months. Months. Where's the quarantine orders? Where was the quarantine order on the 40 000 that arrived AFTER the flight ban?

[Axeman33]

We're in the business of making $500 000 000 decisions on a single tweet.

what about this one:


Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump Jan 24 Follow Follow @realDonaldTrump Following Following @realDonaldTrump Unfollow Unfollow @realDonaldTrump Blocked Blocked @realDonaldTrump Unblock Unblock @realDonaldTrump Pending Pending follow request from @realDonaldTrump Cancel Cancel your follow request to @realDonaldTrump











China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!


1:18 PM - 24 Jan 2020




You can't defend cutting off funding to the WHO right now. You can't. Especially over a single tweet where the rest of the WHO information in and around Jan. 14th supports them being concerned about spread.

I'm still waiting to hear what else Trump did to proactively prevent the spread of COVID other than banning travel. 430 000 people from China freely walking around US for months. Months. Where's the quarantine orders? Where was the quarantine order on the 40 000 that arrived AFTER the flight ban?

Considering Trump himself was unable to answer that when the question was posed to him, I doubt anyone here can give an accurate answer. It's fake news don't you know.

[LawMan]

^^^ This is the kind of misinformation that forces right and right-center folks to defend President Trump. Whether they want to or not. Otherwise, the fake news runs rampant.
And too many people blindly redistribute that fakeness. I apologize in advance if this gets me another warning - I do know I'm not supposed to disagree with a mod.
But what else can I do? Just accept the misinformation and not even try?
I mean seriously, this covid "hoax" narrative has been debunked. Ad nauseam.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...-rally-remark/

" What's False - Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax. "

I agree with you that Trump probably did not call the virus itself a “hoax”. I say probably because with Trump’s rambling style of speaking it is impossible to ever nail down a precise explanation for what he said.
Here is the quote from the February 29th rally in South Carolina:

"Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. You know that, right? Coronavirus. They’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, ‘How’s President Trump doing?’ They go, ‘Oh, not good, not good.’ They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa, they can’t even count. No they can’t. They can’t count their votes.
One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning, they lost, it’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax. But you know, we did something that’s been pretty amazing. We’re 15 people [cases of coronavirus infection] in this massive country. And because of the fact that we went early, we went early, we could have had a lot more than that.

“and this is their new hoax”

Trump did not say the words “Coronavirus is a hoax” he said “and this is their new hoax”.

What “this” refers to is hard to tell. In the first paragraph he starts talking about Coronavirus is “this” the virus? Then he says Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, so is “this” the politicization of the virus, and if so how can that be a “hoax”? I mean Trump says it is happening so how can something he says is happening also be a hoax??

So if the virus itself is not the “hoax” then what is the hoax? What is “this” is Trump referring to???

Further, if what Trump really meant was the criticism is unfair and wrong, what part of the criticism was wrong?

Remember this quote is February 29th. Throughout February Trump downplayed the virus at multiple times:

when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done,"

– February 26th

"It's going to disappear. One day it's like a miracle, it will disappear,"

– February 27th

a longer list here
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ti...tion-id=242252

These statements were criticized by Democrats; who argued Trump was not taking the virus seriously enough. was that criticism a hoax? Sure seems like the statements were wrong and thus the criticism was not only not a hoax but entirely fair?

So again I repeat the question: Trump said "this is there new hoax". What specifically was Trump calling a "hoax"??

[lucafen4]

I agree with you that Trump probably did not call the virus itself a “hoax”. I say probably because with Trump’s rambling style of speaking it is impossible to ever nail down a precise explanation for what he said.
Here is the quote from the February 29th rally in South Carolina:



“and this is their new hoax”

Trump did not say the words “Coronavirus is a hoax” he said “and this is their new hoax”.

What “this” refers to is hard to tell. In the first paragraph he starts talking about Coronavirus is “this” the virus? Then he says Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, so is “this” the politicization of the virus, and if so how can that be a “hoax”? I mean Trump says it is happening so how can something he says is happening also be a hoax??

So if the virus itself is not the “hoax” then what is the hoax? What is “this” is Trump referring to???

Further, if what Trump really meant was the criticism is unfair and wrong, what part of the criticism was wrong?

Remember this quote is February 29th. Throughout February Trump downplayed the virus at multiple times:
– February 26th
– February 27th

a longer list here
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ti...tion-id=242252

These statements were criticized by Democrats; who argued Trump was not taking the virus seriously enough. was that criticism a hoax? Sure seems like the statements were wrong and thus the criticism was not only not a hoax but entirely fair?

So again I repeat the question: Trump said "this is there new hoax". What specifically was Trump calling a "hoax"??

Don't forget this:

Jan 21st - The first case is confirmed from a traveler who had recently visited China and returned to Washington state.

Jan 22nd - The following day, Trump says at a news conference the US has it "totally under control. It's one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It's going to be just fine."



The funny thing is... no one needs sources or references to show Trumps ineptitude in dealing with this. We can just quote him and quote him and quote him.

A few days ago he re-tweeted #firefauci ... Trump brought him in to deal with COVID. now he doesn't like the answers... tick-tock Fauci.

[Auston'sWilly]

Trump said "this is their new hoax". What specifically was Trump calling a "hoax"??

Their = The Democrats
He was calling their politicization of the outbreak their (Democrats) new hoax.
i.e. Something they'll weaponize and try to use against him. Like the Mueller Report Hoax. Like the Ukraine Phone call Hoax. etc. etc.

Nobody is saying President Trump handled this situation perfectly (except Mr. Trump himself maybe).
But I think most bipartisans, and definitely everybody on the right, are saying that this pandemic surprised leaders all over the world, even people/experts who should not have been blindsided the way they were (e.g. The WHO).
And the main reason people were blindsided is because of misinformation & a complete lack of transparency from China, whatever their reasons were. If not for China's response to the initial breakout, we're probably watching hockey playoffs right now instead of debating any of this stuff.
Therefore, the left's rage towards Donald Trump is more about disliking him than really assigning accountability where it belongs.

[PrairieDog]

Shhhhhhh.

[rataylor22]

And the main reason people were blindsided is because of misinformation & a complete lack of transparency from China, whatever their reasons were. If not for China's response to the initial breakout, we're probably watching hockey playoffs right now instead of debating any of this stuff.

As has been pointed out multiple times, that's simply false. Even by the sources you've provided, at best they tried to cover it up for a couple of days.

We're in this because every leader across the world was reactive instead of proactive.

[rataylor22]

It would appear PD's main motivation is to point out that the Chinese government is racist and discriminatory, which um, yea no duh.

If the goal is "look China bad say bad things about them" even when those things are false, well, that is just textbook whataboutism, which is expected from that account, but still so obvious and transparent.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what point of the continuous YouTube videos from laughable feeds are for, except maybe comedy that somebody actually watches those every day.

[forumname]

Their = The Democrats
He was calling their politicization of the outbreak their (Democrats) new hoax.
i.e. Something they'll weaponize and try to use against him. Like the Mueller Report Hoax. Like the Ukraine Phone call Hoax. etc. etc.

How can the politicization of something be a "hoax", unless the something itself is a hoax?? Are you just claiming he misused the word? Politicizing a real event can be called a lot of things, but I don't see how it could be called a hoax...

I think the only logical explanation is that he was saying his opponents were exaggerating the seriousness of the virus to make him look bad. Thus, the seriousness of the virus as it was portrayed in the media is what he's talking about as the "hoax".