Anonymous Poll. Was Don Cherry's "you people come here" comment offensive?

[ericdaoust]

This weekend could be awkward; do we have any idea what the first intermission will be like yet (sorry if someones already said)

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...-nhl-1.5358596

A lot of people will be tuning in to see what's up.

[Auston'sWilly]

Pretty dramatic, considering I never asked you a question at all. Nicely distorted. Nobody is surprised.

Rylant

Correct, I should have said you made a silly statement, which I then made the mistake of trying to address.
I'll repeat since you are clearly having trouble with this for some reason:
You inferred that Orr's two sentences were linked to each other.
I said that I interpreted each sentence independently as he obviously intended them.
When you make silly comments like "you realize one can be generous & caring and still be a racist" you're the one trying to distort the conversation.
(Just to clarify why it's silly, as I know you are ready to pounce already... it's silly because it's obviously true - which is why Orr meant them as not related to each other).

The point of Orr's quote has nothing to do with your silly remark.

[rataylor22]

Pretty funny to see a 31 Thoughts podcast come out and have zero mention of all this stuff.

I'm not sure what podcast you listened to because they definitely talked about it on this week's episode (this week's episode was not the Teemu Selanne pre-recorded interview)

[MZac]

Poll from yahoo with a different question and bigger sample size: Where do you stand on the Don Cherry controversy?

1. I agree that he should have been fired (2482 votes or 20%)

2. He shouldn't have been fired (9870 votes or 78%)

3. I'm not sure where I stand (365 votes or 3%)

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/where-do-y...172512050.html

[Locke]

"If respecting and honouring Canadian Veterans makes you a dinosaur..." An irony about this statement is it's probably true to some extent. We're a long ways from WW2. And while as a country we've sent brave people to Afghanistan and other places since then, no conflict has seen the losses, had the same potential consequences, or rallied the country the same way. I'm not saying we should forget, or not. It's just as the decades go by individual Canadians are less and less impacted directly by the sacrifices that were made. And the cultural significance fades.

That loss is a real one, and I appreciate that you feel it genuinely. No doubt Cherry does as well.

Cherry was not fired because he then, and elsewhere regularly, urges us to remember and honour the sacrifices made. Because he urged people to wear poppies.

Cherry was not fired because the "SJW mob" demanded it, pitchforks ablaze.

He was fired because a large corporation decided that it was in their economic best interest to do so. This was not a moral decision. At all.

Precisely the same decision that was made about Apu.

My guess is most of the people who've commented on this thread 'defending' the side that Cherry's comment was offensive don't care a great deal about whether or not he was fired. They almost certainly feel no personal responsibility for his firing. They didn't make that decision. They understand why it happened, that's about it. Many are probably surprised it took a large corporation this long to fire somebody as controversial as Cherry.

If you're on this thread decrying the "mountain out of a molehill" that is being made about this, making comments about how thick skin's been lost, etc, there's no enormous conspiracy. What there is a slow, apparently painful, incredibly complicated demographic shift. And the shift is being pushed by corporate decisions.

There are radicals on the left of course, just like on the right. But just as much as those who think Cherry's firing is ridiculous presumably believe it's ludicrous to be linked to Nazis, so too do the majority of folks here on the other side reject as absurd the SJW label the way it's used here. There is a difference of opinion here. And despite sensationalist journalism discussing 'culture wars', there's no war.

Recognizing that "you people who come to our country..." is xenophobic (disliking of or prejudicial towards people from other countries) and is going to offend some people shouldn't be hard. Its the definition of xenophobia. Asking whether or not that is offensive is impossible to answer (I voted yes, because I interpreted the question as potentially offensive to those who were the implied object of the statement). But a lot of shit people say might be offensive then. And just because it's offensive, doesn't mean it should be censored. Or that it justifies the firing. Again, not the point. I wasn't personally offended by the statement. Whether or not I was personally offended isn't relevant. Whether anyone was personally offended isn't relevant. Because: it's the wrong question. It's the wrong question.

Again, it wasn't a moral decision. It was an economic one.

Should corporations set the moral tone for a country because of responses generated through anonymous polls, focus groups, online outrage, etc? No right?

How is it even possible to regulate that?

Personally, I'm regretful Cherry was fired. He was entertaining, was unexpected, and occasionally insightful. Only a little regretful, because he was also more and more regularly really hard to follow. He wasn't making sense. I was willing to overlook that because there's no good replacement, and so many people who might replace him are so blah.

Either way, it's a shame. Cherry was a Canadian icon. Mildly racist and xenophobic or not, I'll miss him. He was a staple of my life for 30ish years.

Anyhow. You're all each other's forking neighbours. It'd be cool if you used this forum (because everyone's here with one huge thing in common - the passion for hockey), to ask genuine questions about these things and listen to the answers.

[hawkdog]

If people think that cherry got fired for those comments alone they have their head stuck up their ass. He likely has an HR file full of warnings and was walking on thin ice - straw that broke the camel's back. And there could other issues in the background as well - highly likely with his personality.

[Rylant]

"If respecting and honouring Canadian Veterans makes you a dinosaur..." An irony about this statement is it's probably true to some extent. We're a long ways from WW2. And while as a country we've sent brave people to Afghanistan and other places since then, no conflict has seen the losses, had the same potential consequences, or rallied the country the same way. I'm not saying we should forget, or not. It's just as the decades go by individual Canadians are less and less impacted directly by the sacrifices that were made. And the cultural significance fades.

That loss is a real one, and I appreciate that you feel it genuinely. No doubt Cherry does as well.

Cherry was not fired because he then, and elsewhere regularly, urges us to remember and honour the sacrifices made. Because he urged people to wear poppies.

Cherry was not fired because the "SJW mob" demanded it, pitchforks ablaze.

He was fired because a large corporation decided that it was in their economic best interest to do so. This was not a moral decision. At all.

Precisely the same decision that was made about Apu.

My guess is most of the people who've commented on this thread 'defending' the side that Cherry's comment was offensive don't care a great deal about whether or not he was fired. They almost certainly feel no personal responsibility for his firing. They didn't make that decision. They understand why it happened, that's about it. Many are probably surprised it took a large corporation this long to fire somebody as controversial as Cherry.

If you're on this thread decrying the "mountain out of a molehill" that is being made about this, making comments about how thick skin's been lost, etc, there's no enormous conspiracy. What there is a slow, apparently painful, incredibly complicated demographic shift. And the shift is being pushed by corporate decisions.

There are radicals on the left of course, just like on the right. But just as much as those who think Cherry's firing is ridiculous presumably believe it's ludicrous to be linked to Nazis, so too do the majority of folks here on the other side reject as absurd the SJW label the way it's used here. There is a difference of opinion here. And despite sensationalist journalism discussing 'culture wars', there's no war.

Recognizing that "you people who come to our country..." is xenophobic (disliking of or prejudicial towards people from other countries) and is going to offend some people shouldn't be hard. Its the definition of xenophobia. Asking whether or not that is offensive is impossible to answer (I voted yes, because I interpreted the question as potentially offensive to those who were the implied object of the statement). But a lot of shit people say might be offensive then. And just because it's offensive, doesn't mean it should be censored. Or that it justifies the firing. Again, not the point. I wasn't personally offended by the statement. Whether or not I was personally offended isn't relevant. Whether anyone was personally offended isn't relevant. Because: it's the wrong question. It's the wrong question.

Again, it wasn't a moral decision. It was an economic one.

Should corporations set the moral tone for a country because of responses generated through anonymous polls, focus groups, online outrage, etc? No right?

How is it even possible to regulate that?

Personally, I'm regretful Cherry was fired. He was entertaining, was unexpected, and occasionally insightful. Only a little regretful, because he was also more and more regularly really hard to follow. He wasn't making sense. I was willing to overlook that because there's no good replacement, and so many people who might replace him are so blah.

Either way, it's a shame. Cherry was a Canadian icon. Mildly racist and xenophobic or not, I'll miss him. He was a staple of my life for 30ish years.

Anyhow. You're all each other's forking neighbours. It'd be cool if you used this forum (because everyone's here with one huge thing in common - the passion for hockey), to ask genuine questions about these things and listen to the answers.

I cannot rep this post enough. Very well said. I really appreciate the respectful and thoughtful manner in which you come across.

Rylant

[Auston'sWilly]

Anyhow. You're all each other's forking neighbours. It'd be cool if you used this forum (because everyone's here with one huge thing in common - the passion for hockey), to ask genuine questions about these things and listen to the answers.

Great post overall.
Only a couple things I disagree with, but this debate has raged on long enough. Rep to you.

[Auston'sWilly]

Atta boy Rex Murphy.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex...ch-much-better


Another great quote from a mystery man on twitter: "When your friends are under fire be a Bobby Orr for them, not a Ron Maclean." That's one of the biggest lessons of this whole fiasco.

[forumname]

Atta boy Rex Murphy.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex...ch-much-better


Another great quote from a mystery man on twitter: "When your friends are under fire be a Bobby Orr for them, not a Ron Maclean." That's one of the biggest lessons of this whole fiasco.

That's one of the biggest lessons? Defend your friends no matter what? Brutal lesson.

[Auston'sWilly]

That's one of the biggest lessons? Defend your friends no matter what? Brutal lesson.

Oh my goodness. Nobody said "no matter what." We need to start a drinking game on these forums. Lefty antagonizer inserts fiction = Drink up.​ Everybody would be so hammered within an hour.

[forumname]

Oh my goodness. Nobody said "no matter what." We need to start a drinking game on these forums. Lefty antagonizer inserts fiction = Drink up.​ Everybody would be so hammered within an hour.

Okay, defend them when they do something bad?

I'm also not "left", as you love you say.

[Auston'sWilly]

Just be like Bobby Orr. Not Ron Maclean.
Try not to overthink it.

[forumname]

"When your friends are under fire be a Bobby Orr for them, not a Ron Maclean."

Also, **** this quote. Ron had to put up with Don's rude ass bullshit for years. Cutting him off, yelling at him constantly and treating him like a little bitch. Nice friend.

[Auston'sWilly]

Don had Ron's back when the latter got turfed for Strombolopoulos. He lobbied to get him back full time.
Ron then throws him under the bus first chance he gets.