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Thread: TOI - Dynasty category

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    Default TOI - Dynasty category

    What does everyone think about using TOI as a category in H2H Dynasty leagues?


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    Default Re: TOI - Dynasty category

    I use it as a stat multiplier for d-men in my leagues ; gives them a little boost in value in relation to F/G .

    do you need it as a roto h2h cat or stat multiplier ?

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    Default Re: TOI - Dynasty category

    It is now a stat category in a 16 team H2H dynasty league and we are voting on whether to keep it or not. Not sure I see the value in it.


    2019 WHL GM of the Year #Supersoft
    WHL - World Hockey League (24 Team - Daily H2H)
    Weighted Scoring:
    G(1),A(1),PPP(0.5),+/-(0.5), SOG/PIM/HIT/BLK(all 0.05), FOW-C(0.01)

    Manitoba Moose 2018-2019
    C(3): C. McDavid, S. Monahan, B. Nelson
    LW(3): J. Huberdeau, C. Kreider, S. Baertchi
    RW(3): M. Rantanen, J.Eberle, C. Atkinson
    F(3): E. Pettersson, T. Jost, J. Khaira
    D(6): V. Hedman, C. McAvoy, T. Stecher, J. Oesterle, J, Oleksiak, M, Grzelcyk
    G(1): A. Vasilevskiy, J. Gilles, R.Lehner, T. Greiss
    Bench: L. Glendening, R, Murray, M. Johannson, K. Okposo
    Prospects: J. Dahlen, L. Brown, T. Steenbergen, K. Clague, K. Miller, J. Drury, M. Strome, D. Samberg

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    Default Re: TOI - Dynasty category

    Nope.
    I don't like it. Stats for simply going out onto the ice-surface... psh, not for me.

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    Default Re: TOI - Dynasty category

    I cannot get invested in this stat. Giveaways/takeaways are dealbreakers for me as well.
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    Default Re: TOI - Dynasty category

    If you're at a point where TOI is your next category to try to bring more value/realism to the league, chances are your league should be looking to remove a category or two, not add more. That's my experience. I'm in a league that counts SHTOI and dman takeaways and I feel it has added zero value.


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    Default Re: TOI - Dynasty category

    Quote Originally Posted by ericdaoust View Post
    If you're at a point where TOI is your next category to try to bring more value/realism to the league, chances are your league should be looking to remove a category or two, not add more. That's my experience. I'm in a league that counts SHTOI and dman takeaways and I feel it has added zero value.
    I was in a dynasty league with SHTOI and I felt it added a lot to the game. There are a zillion stats focused on generating offense. Killing penalties is a valuable skill in hockey and there is nothing wrong IMO for finding a way to reward this in fantasy hockey.

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    Default Re: TOI - Dynasty category

    I love using TOI as a stat. It's one of the most valuable things a dman can do. It's also the truest measure of value to a guy's NHL team. If the coach thinks that a guy should be on the ice the most, it means that the coach thinks that guy is the best at his position. No other stat tells you exactly what the team thinks of a player's value.

    Some leagues use blocked shots or takeaways or hits as proxies for defensive ability but that makes no sense to me since the best defenders don't get many of any of those stats. This is because those stats can only be earned while the other team has the puck and the best defenders never let the other team have possession of the puck.

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    Default Re: TOI - Dynasty category

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    I love using TOI as a stat. It's one of the most valuable things a dman can do. It's also the truest measure of value to a guy's NHL team. If the coach thinks that a guy should be on the ice the most, it means that the coach thinks that guy is the best at his position. No other stat tells you exactly what the team thinks of a player's value.
    Well, if you are doing a fantasy league where the player pool is from ONE team... then this makes good sense.
    Unfortunately, I've never been in an NHL pool where there's only ONE team to choose from.

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    Some leagues use blocked shots or takeaways or hits as proxies for defensive ability but that makes no sense to me since the best defenders don't get many of any of those stats.
    This can be valid. The very best defenders close on approaching forwards so well that the forward often has no choice but to give up the puck. This may be due to a HIT... or they may waste a shot into the D-man's body (BLK)... or the D-man might outright strip the forward of the puck (Takeaway).

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    This is because those stats can only be earned while the other team has the puck and the best defenders never let the other team have possession of the puck.
    Half true.
    Yes - those stats can only be earned when the other team has the puck.
    But... it's really NOT a team's defensemen that limits the other team having the puck.

    90% of a time, a puck is turned over by a team's forwards while skating, passing, on rebounds, or lost face-offs.
    Change of puck possession RARELY has anything to do with a team's own defensemen... so in that regard, it's not really a good or accurate comment.

    A team with good defensive (/neutral zone) forwards limits puck possession or offensive zone entries.
    A team with a good defensive system all together will limit shots-on-net (SOG).

    But the reason TOI is NOT a good stat is that EVERY team has 60min x 5skaters worth of ice-time to hand-out.
    Theoretically, an NHL team could be formed of complete scrubs... and that team's best defenseman - let's call him JohnnyScrubsy... is going to get 25min/gp of TOI.
    That stat would put him on par with any team's top D-men.

    It's a FORCED STAT.
    You could have a team of 6-year olds... and the best 6-year old is going to get 25min/gp.
    You could have a team of turtles... and the best turtle is going to get 25min/gp.

    TOI is also subject to ONE coach's decision of utilization... or one GM's efforts to stock up or NOT stock up on quality D-men.


    Since 1997-1998, 18 defensemen have logged over 28:50 toi/gp in a season.

    Here they are:
    1. Chris Pronger
    2. Chris Pronger
    3. Chris Chelios
    4. Ray Bourque
    5. Brian Leetch
    6. Brian Leetch
    7. Ray Bourque
    8. Chris Pronger
    9. Ryan Suter
    10. Brian Leetch
    11. Nicklas Lidstrom
    12. Al MacInnis
    13. Ryan Suter
    14. Adrian Aucoin
    15. Drew Doughty
    16. Erik Karlsson
    17. Adrian Aucoin
    18. Sergei Zubov

    Now... I think 16 of those names on that list are also getting a good number of points with their TOI.
    There's already stats in fantasy hockey (A, P, PPP, SOG, +/-) that show those players' value.
    But... does a league REALLY need to up-value Adrain Aucoin because he was the Islanders best option on D in those years?
    I mean... really?!

    http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?repo...meOnIcePerGame

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    Default Re: TOI - Dynasty category

    Quote Originally Posted by als_revenge View Post
    I was in a dynasty league with SHTOI and I felt it added a lot to the game. There are a zillion stats focused on generating offense. Killing penalties is a valuable skill in hockey and there is nothing wrong IMO for finding a way to reward this in fantasy hockey.
    I'm on board with this. There's a lot of young players that cut their teeth entering the NHL playing short handed. Great way to boost 3rd/4th liners. I mean there are the Crosby's, Bergeron's there too, but for every one of them, there's a P. Kane or A. Matthews that doesn't play SH. Instead you get Freddy Gauthier or Garnet Hathaway

    TOI continues to reward those already being rewareded in fantasy hockey. I think if a league wants to add extra categories like this, the goal is to make the rostered pool of players more diverse. SH-TOI does this to some extent.
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