Jeff Carter vs. Mike Richards

[Rusty Pickles]

Richards.
:P


It really comes down to what kind of stats your team needs more. Carts is better in the face off dot, shoots more, and will get more goals. Richards is a better all around player, playmaker, and will keep his spot on the top pp and pk. Thus giving him the advantage in PP and SHP. Richards will carry a better +- playing with coburn and kimo.

Carter can be a more dominant player but is inconsistent and cannon brings the fire every night.

Long term Carter may become the better fantasy player but for the next few years Richards is the guy, and if you look at the money they paid him, Carter will never get more ice time in Philly and both will be in Philly for some time.

[Rusty Pickles]

Richards.
:P


It really comes down to what kind of stats your team needs more. Carts is better in the face off dot, shoots more, and will get more goals. Richards is a better all around player, playmaker, and will keep his spot on the top pp and pk. Thus giving him the advantage in PP and SHP. Richards will carry a better +- playing with coburn and kimo.

Carter can be a more dominant player but is inconsistent and cannon brings the fire every night.

Long term Carter may become the better fantasy player but for the next few years Richards is the guy, and if you look at the money they paid him, Carter will never get more ice time in Philly and both will be in Philly for some time.

[Jester]

I have been waiting to see a post like this....
LAST year, I needed a player to sign due to injury(rollover last year, keeper this year) I looked at Carter and Richards. I took Carter...... sigh ... THEN, when the same situation happened to my brother, I said take a look at Richards. He did, and with our scoring system, Richards out-pointed Carter by a long shot. I was pretty upset, to say the least.

THIS YEAR, now a keeper league, I drafted Carter over Richards. IMO, more long term upside.

[strider2k2]

Unfortunately the whole Carter over Richards argument is predicated on Carter being moved out of Philly. I just don\'t see that happening. If they trade somebody, I\'d put my money on Lupul. He\'s skating on the third line right now, and even though he\'s making less that Carter his salary jumps up to
4.25 in 09/10. That\'s an awful lot of money to pay a 3rd liner, especially with Giroux waiting in the wings.

Even if both Carter and Richards are top line centers with comparable talent playing around them, Carter is only going to be superior in points only leagues. As soon as you start to include +/-, PIM, and especially SHP, Richards is the better fantasy player.

[fogducker]

I think a lot of people are looking at the situatoin in philly right now and making up their minds based on that. Put Carter on a different team and I\'d take him over Richards in any pool. The only difference right now is the PP time Richards is getting over him...other than that their ice time is pretty even on the PK and EV...I assure you if Carter was on another team, he\'d be on that top powerplay, along with the PK to get you those multi-cat stats.

On another note...

oasiswings1 wrote:

no way philly ever trades carter for a has-been, never-was mats sundin. all this sundin hype isnt warranted. No cups, no trophies. He isnt the proven champion Niedermayer is and thus shouldnt be afforded the same luxuries and interest nieds got last season.

Common, are these ignorant comments really needed? Sundin has been an excellent player throughout his career and doesn\'t deserve being bashed like this...Yea, maybe he hasn\'t won any cups but what do you expect when management doesn\'t give him a half-decent supporting cast...Niedermayer had players such as Stevens, Elias, Brodeur, Gomez just to name a few...even on Anaheim he still had Pronger, selanne, Getzlaf and so on.... Did Sundin not lead Sweeden to an olYmpic gold medal in 06,...look at the team they had...

And another thing, Niedermayer was UNDER CONTRACT when he decided to leave Anaheim hanging for half the season...Sundin is a UFA and has no obligation to any team and IMO has earned his right to take as much time off as he wants. I lost respect for what Niedermayer did and i\'m sure a lot of people feel the same way.

[Dakkster]

Thank you fogducker. It\'s pretty much the height of ignorance to blame the Leafs lack of a Cup on Sundin. Blame Peddie and the rest of the MLSE group. Sundin has always been an excellent captain for Tre Kronor, leading Sweden to numerous gold medals at the World Championships and the Olympics. Call him a loser and you don\'t know anything about hockey.

[strider2k2]

fogducker wrote:

I think a lot of people are looking at the situatoin in philly right now and making up their minds based on that. Put Carter on a different team and I\'d take him over Richards in any pool. The only difference right now is the PP time Richards is getting over him...other than that their ice time is pretty even on the PK and EV...I assure you if Carter was on another team, he\'d be on that top powerplay, along with the PK to get you those multi-cat stats.

While that may be true, since Carter isn\'t getting traded, his fantasy value is, and will continue to be, lower than Richards. While i may concede that Carter on a top line with good talent could match or better Richards\' +/- and PPP, Richards will still have Carter beat in PIM and SHP.

Let me also just add for the record that as a die hard Flyers fan, I am loving that fact that we have both of these kids, since they are both going to be real good hockey players.

[fogducker]

ben10rules wrote:

EDIT: answer as if they were both #1 on their respective team (i.e. if Carter was traded right now...would not his stats soar? so please do not use current situation when answering!)

In responce to \"Stridersk2\", i was just answering based on the above, but you\'re right...in this current situation richards does has more value than carter...

buut if he was on another team i think he\'d better Richards in most cats, even SHP

[strider2k2]

I can buy Carter topping Richards in goals (definately), +/-, SOG, PPP, and getting close on assists, but I will continue to argue that Richards would still dominate SHP and PIM. In their short careers Richards has had 12 SHG, which is double Carter\'s 6. Richards also has about 60 more PIMS.

Richards going to be a point per game player for a while, and if Carter is getting top line and top PP minutes he should do even better. That said, in deeper leagues I think what Richards will give you with SHP and PIMs will outweigh the point advantage from Carter.

This is all predicated of course on my belief that while Richards is getting more PP time, he and Carter\'s PK time is about equal. This is based only on the memory of a Flyer\'s fan. If somebody has some evidence that Richards\' PK time is significantly more than Carter\'s this would definately change my argument.

[Scribe]

baumer wrote:

I\'m talking about cap space. They can sign Sundin but they need cap space to get him there. Trading Carter is the logical play, and it has been discussed on hockey shows.

They just locked up Carter to a long-term deal. He\'s part of their core and he\'s No. 2 centre now.

They shipped Umberger to Columbus so they could create cap space to sign Carter.

Sure, if they bring Sundin in, it makes more sense to trade a centre to make cap space, but IMO, it doesn\'t make sense for them to sign Sundin. I think Holmgren has more of a plan than that.

Plus, you have to factor in that Sundin\'s ticket will be more expensive than Carter\'s and whoever you trade Carter for is going to have a cap hit, too.

I don\'t see Sundin in a Flyers uniform, but I\'ve been surprised before.

[baumer]

Well guys, I\'m just telling you what i have been hearing. I\'m not saying Bill Watters is the smartest guy in the world, but he is behind the scenes and knows moe than all of us and one of the things he said is if Sunding goes to Philly, one of the cogs they might move is Carter. Locking him uip long term is great for the team they might trade him too also....locking someone up long term doesn\'t mean you can\'t or wont trade him.

[Dakkster]

Rule number one if you want to stay sane: Do NOT, under any circumstances whatsoever, take anything the Toronto media, and Bill Watters in particular, says seriously.

Watters is a joke. The Toronto media (when it comes to hockey, of course) is a joke. Nothing but a giant rumormongering machine.

[baumer]

Well, I can tell you from first hand experience that Bill Watters is not a joke. He may be the media now but he still has plenty of conenctions.

[Dakkster]

I\'m not saying that he\'s like Eklund or Garrioch. But I wouldn\'t trust him with five bucks, I can tell you that much.

[notoriusbug]

Gotta go with Mike Richards.

I don\'t buy the \"Jeff Carter will blow up\" theory if he gets traded. The guy seems to lack the fire to be consistently good. No question he can fly and has a super shot...

Richards has more upside in assists, +/-, PIM, SHP
Carter has more upside in goals, shots

Power play points, probably a wash...so give me Richards now and 3 years from now even if Carter is wearing a different jersey.