Sens Players Caught on Uber Camera

[MZac]

Would be stupid if that's the reason. One of the main selling points of Uber and other ride sharing companies like Lyft when they came out was that you DIDN'T HAVE TO TIP...it's supposed to be incorporated in their slice of the pie that they get.

It's a selling point for uber the company. Drivers for ride share get paid really crappy wages and generally hate the stance ride share companies take on optional tipping. Tips make up a big portion of their take home income. Without them and factoring in the cost of your vehicle the typical hourly wage for these guys is really really low (we'll below minimum wage in any 1st world country, something like 2-5 dollars an hour on average).

Wouldn't surprise me at all if a crappy or no tip led to the release of the video.

[forumname]

It's a selling point for uber the company. Drivers for ride share get paid really crappy wages and generally hate the stance ride share companies take on optional tipping. Tips make up a big portion of their take home income. Without them and factoring in the cost of your vehicle the typical hourly wage for these guys is really really low (we'll below minimum wage in any 1st world country, something like 2-5 dollars an hour on average).

Wouldn't surprise me at all if a crappy or no tip led to the release of the video.

I almost never tip my Uber drivers, and I honestly don't care how much or how little they make. If they don't like it, there are plenty of other jobs they can apply for. "Mandatory" tipping in our culture is a joke.

[Godin]

The players came into a private car. The owner of that car can video tape whatever the hell he wants......in HIS private car.

But its not a private car when you are using it to move people and get paid for it. As i'm sure you know, there are different laws for passenger vehicles compared to private cars.

Now, if they were hitchhiking and he picked him up, then yes, he can record whatever he wants, just like many drivers that have dash cams installed do.

[agentzero]

Not in Canada they don't have to provide consent. I could have a phone conversation with you, and record the entire thing without your knowledge as long as I know our conversation is being taped. That's a ruling from the Supreme Court.

I think you mean, as long as both of us know it is being taped, but I believe that ruling is between private individuals, not a business and individuals.

And while one party can record it without the other's knowledge for a variety of reasons, including their own safety, publishing it is an entirely different story. Companies record conversations all the time ("for training and quality assurance purposes") but they tell you that they're doing it and you have the option to hang up. The same is in an Uber, where you have the knowledge that you are being taped and you consent to it by agreeing to the terms of service. What you don't consent to is that recording being released to the media. That's why Uber apologized, because you can't do that shit. This isn't a recording between private individuals (as per the SC ruling). It's a business recording individuals for specifically stated security purposes. Very different.

[agentzero]

The players came into a private car. The owner of that car can video tape whatever the hell he wants......in HIS private car.

People in public can and are being video taped all day every day. I can walk up to you on the street and stand in front of you and video tape you as long as you're on city/public property. As long as I am on city property I can video tape anything I can see.

Thats the first amendment.

Weather the car is still 'private' considering he's an uber driver is the question.

I would firstly suggest that they could hide behind their ride-sharing concept in order to argue that it is still a private car instead of a fee-for-service ride, like a limo or taxi, but to me that should get thrown out as a technicality obstructing the broader picture, which is that people are paying a registered business in exchange for a service. I would then argue it is not up to the driver to do as he pleases to those in his vehicle, even if he owns it personally (for a business purpose).

[MZac]

I almost never tip my Uber drivers, and I honestly don't care how much or how little they make. If they don't like it, there are plenty of other jobs they can apply for. "Mandatory" tipping in our culture is a joke.

I'm not saying you have to tip. I'm just letting you know how the drivers feel. They are entitled to feel differently than you about tips.

Edit: Tipping isn't mandatory anywhere I know of (in Canada) outside of large groups at restaurants and they let you know before you book, so that's your own interpretation put on that.

I'm sure the drivers feel that people that don't tip are a joke the same way you feel tipping is a joke.

[rataylor22]

I don't believe it's unethical for the driver to film his passengers for safety reasons. Unfortunately at this point, that's just safe.

I don't believe it's unethical for a news organization to report news. There's really nothing wrong with them releasing this video when they came in possession of it. It's not even about "being first". They're a news organization, they reported news. That's like saying it's unethical to report criminal accusations/investigations. It's news.

It is unethical (and potentially illegal) for the driver to publicly release the video.

[rataylor22]

I almost never tip my Uber drivers, and I honestly don't care how much or how little they make. If they don't like it, there are plenty of other jobs they can apply for. "Mandatory" tipping in our culture is a joke.

This is correct and applicable to all service industries in Canada.

I'm not saying you have to tip. I'm just letting you know how the drivers feel. They are entitled to feel differently than you about tips.

Edit: Tipping isn't mandatory anywhere I know of (in Canada) outside of large groups at restaurants and they let you know before you book, so that's your own interpretation put on that.

I'm sure the drivers feel that people that don't tip are a joke the same way you feel tipping is a joke.

By law, obviously no, tipping is not mandatory. Functionally however, it is "mandatory" in many situations even though it shouldn't be. Canada desperately wants to be the US without recognizing that minimum wage is $15 in Canada while it's like $2.50 for many jobs in the US.

Everyone essentially considers you an ******* if you don't tip at restaurants, cabs, hairdresser, etc. At restaurants, theoretically it is mandatory as a server has to "tip out" different portions of the restaurant whether you tip or not.

[agentzero]

I don't believe it's unethical for a news organization to report news. There's really nothing wrong with them releasing this video when they came in possession of it. It's not even about "being first". They're a news organization, they reported news. That's like saying it's unethical to report criminal accusations/investigations. It's news.

A private conversation between individuals about their feelings towards one of their bosses, which doesn't regard anyone else in the general public and has no impact on the general public, is news?

I don't think that's news. I think that's gossip and fit for tabloids, which are not news.

I don't believe anyone would say that taping for safety or security reasons is unethical.

I agree with you, releasing it served no other purpose but to hurt someone's reputation. Otherwise, I'm not exactly sure what the purpose would ever be. It's not like the Uber driver is friends with the special teams coach and if he was, he wouldn't release it to him in the media. I saw that it was reported that this was about the tip. If that's the case, he's not likely to endear himself to more tips this way....

[rataylor22]

I mean you’re applying normal workplaces to the NHL. A disagreement between me and my boss isn’t not news and me bitching about it isn’t news.

That same situation in professional sports is news, yes.

Just like a fight between you and a coworker isn’t news but a fight in practice is.

[agentzero]

I would say that just because a media outlet chooses to publicize or report something, it doesn't make it news. Plenty of what is reported or broadcasted is not news. Gossip, is not news. I would also say that while plenty of things about the NHL and its workplace are public (like games and public events and practices, or shows that are produced by or with the express authorization fo the NHL and its players, like 24/7), plenty of them are not and this is one of them. A person should not have to be publicly accountable for every single living moment, especially private moments. Releasing this kind of stuff to the public eye is not genuinely useful to anyone. It only serves to hurt, which means it's not news, it's gossip.

[MZac]

This is correct and applicable to all service industries in Canada.



By law, obviously no, tipping is not mandatory. Functionally however, it is "mandatory" in many situations even though it shouldn't be. Canada desperately wants to be the US without recognizing that minimum wage is $15 in Canada while it's like $2.50 for many jobs in the US.

Everyone essentially considers you an ******* if you don't tip at restaurants, cabs, hairdresser, etc. At restaurants, theoretically it is mandatory as a server has to "tip out" different portions of the restaurant whether you tip or not.

My experience with people that don't tip service industries is that, generally speaking, they don't tip because they are cheap. My dad is this way and a number of other rich men (women are notoriously better tippers generally speaking) I know do the same thing. The rationale is 'get another job', 'I don't get tips for doing my job', 'the service was only good, not great' etc. That's crap, the truth? Cheap. They can afford it. They just dont want to. That's fine, it's your money, you earned it, spend it how you want. But don't sugar coat it.

Pro athletes are no different, in fact its a running joke in the nba about who the cheapest stars are. They choose not to tip as well.

I've never worked in the service industry or at a single job where tipping was required/expected/occasional. I never plan to work in the service industry because generally speaking, the jobs suck.

I tipped well before I had money and I tip better now that I do.

I can do basic math, the math says the service industry wages generally require tips to live a modest lifestyle, especially in large urban centers. Try serving at earls and living in downtown Vancouver or Toronto on the awesome Canadian minimum wage without tips. Good luck.

So why do I tip? I like the service industry, I use it constantly. I want it to continue to be there and for people to want to do those jobs. Because the jobs are hard, relentless, and you have to be nice to tons of entitled jerks that are often intoxicated.

So you don't want to leave 2 bucks on your uber ride that cost you $6 when a taxi would have cost you double or triple? I will call it how I see it, cheap.

[agentzero]

My experience with people that don't tip service industries is that, generally speaking, they don't tip because they are cheap. My dad is this way and a number of other rich men (women are notoriously better tippers generally speaking) I know do the same thing. The rationale is 'get another job', 'I don't get tips for doing my job', 'the service was only good, not great' etc. That's crap, the truth? Cheap. They can afford it. They just dont want to. That's fine, it's your money, you earned it, spend it how you want. But don't sugar coat it.

Pro athletes are no different, in fact its a running joke in the nba about shot the cheapest stars are. They choose not to tip as well.

I've never worked in the service industry or at a single job where tipping was required/expected/occasional. I never plan to work in the service industry because generally speaking, the jobs suck.

I tipped well before I had money and I tip better now that I do.

I can do basic math, the math says the service industry wages generally require tips to live a modest lifestyle, especially in large urban centers. Try serving at earls and living in downtown Vancouver or Toronto on the awesome Canadian minimum wage without tips. Good luck.

So why do I tip? I like the service industry, I use it constantly. I want it to continue to be there and for people to want to do those jobs. Because the jobs are hard, relentless, and you have to be nice to tons of entitled jerks that are often intoxicated.

So you don't want to leave 2 bucks on your uber ride that cost you $6 when a taxi would have cost you double or triple? I will call it how I see it, cheap.

This was an awesome post and I will rep it when I can. The service industry provides a valuable social commodity and it is infinitely more fun when the people who serve you are cheerful and good at their jobs, and tips helps that, more often than not. Except maybe at giant discos and dance bars where everyone is under 25 and the bartenders open beers or mix crummy drinks and expect a dollar for it every time. Then again, perhaps those places wouldn't be open if they didn't.. so heck, whatever. Let's throw them in there too.

[newfcollins]

I think you mean, as long as both of us know it is being taped, but I believe that ruling is between private individuals, not a business and individuals.

Nope. You don't need to know that I am taping a conversation. I'm a journalist by trade. I tape record all my conversations. I don't have to tell a single person. It's called the one-party consent exception.

Here is a web site that explains it. It also goes into wiretapping, but that doesn't apply to this discussion. It's pretty lengthy, but here are some of the more relevant paragraphs.

The Criminal Code, R.S.C. 1985, c. C-46 [Criminal Code] imposes a general prohibition on interception (recording) of private communications, but then provides an exception where one of the parties to the private communication consents to the interception of that communication. Thus, broadly speaking, Canadians can legally record their own conversations with other people, but not other peoples' conversations that they are not involved in.
...
Other legislation in Canada protects various privacy rights, but does not prevent Canadians from recording their own conversations with others.
...
In R. v. Goldman, [1980] 1 S.C.R. 976 [Goldman] the Supreme Court of Canada confirmed that an interception of a private communication is lawful if one of the parties consented to it and explained that “the consent may be express or implied and may be given by either the originator of the private communication or the intended recipient”: Goldman at 997.
...
In La Compagnie D’Assurance Standard Life v. Renald Rouleau, [1995] R.J.Q. 1407 at para. 19 (S.C.) the Quebec Superior Court held that an employer surreptitiously recording telephone conversations with an ex-employee was not a violation of s. 184 of the Criminal Code.
...
Conclusion regarding the one party consent exception
The foregoing indicates that, in Canada, it is legal to record your own conversations, whether they are had on the telephone or in person. However, it is illegal to record a conversation if you are not one of the intend recipients of the communications made in that conversation.

Companies may have their own rules about recording conversations, but it is not illegal. It is also not illegal to publish the recording (think of Donald Sterling's girlfriend taping their conversations, Kanye and Kim Kardashian recording their phone call with Taylor Swift, or anytime a news camera records encountering someone famous on the street).

[agentzero]

Nope. You don't need to know that I am taping a conversation. I'm a journalist by trade. I tape record all my conversations. I don't have to tell a single person. It's called the one-party consent exception.

Here is a web site that explains it. It also goes into wiretapping, but that doesn't apply to this discussion. It's pretty lengthy, but here are some of the more relevant paragraphs.



Companies may have their own rules about recording conversations, but it is not illegal. It is also not illegal to publish the recording (think of Donald Sterling's girlfriend taping their conversations, Kanye and Kim Kardashian recording their phone call with Taylor Swift, or anytime a news camera records encountering someone famous on the street).

But Kanye and Kim, Sterling and his gf, those are private individuals. I don't think a business (not a journalist one, but a commerce, like Uber) can record surreptitiously for any purpose and then make those recordings public, if the recording has nothing to do with the purpose.

Also, the Uber driver was not a party to the conversation, so I do not believe the single party exception applies. He was a bystander, not a participant. I think this breaks the rules as an interception of a private conversation to which the recorder was not a party.