TRUMP

[Dirty Dangles]

What?s amazing, is people on this forum define me as a liberal, even though I?m simply a staunch conservative who can separate humanity and partisanship.

This is what gets lost when labels are blanket applied to a persons political leanings and/or beliefs. All conservatives are painted as only being extreme right and liberals extreme left, when I believe a majority of us can agree with principles from both sides. I?m a Christian, that doesn?t automatically mean I?m against abortion. Women are the only ones who can decide if that is an option for them or not. A lot of times in talking about controversial issues, whenever someone?s political leanings are discovered they are automatically defaulted to the extreme of both ends of the spectrum.

[Tobias Funke]

Rich men on both sides of the coin read this thread and look at each other with a knowing smile. ?Job well done? they say to each other.

[Dirty Dangles]

Politics is the easiest outlet to keep the people truly divided and keep the masses attention diverted from where it should be. Follow the money.......

[Anton Chigurh]

Politics is the easiest outlet to keep the people truly divided and keep the masses attention diverted from where it should be. Follow the money.......

Follow the money and the guns. The best time to make many is when blood flows in the streets. Get ready Iran. And Venezuela. We're coming for you next.

[doulos]

Rich men on both sides of the coin read this thread and look at each other with a knowing smile. ?Job well done? they say to each other.

So what is the solution?

[PrairieDog]

Follow the money and the guns. The best time to make many is when blood flows in the streets. Get ready Iran. And Venezuela. We're coming for you next.

The blood is already flowing in those streets, and has been for some time. They're doing a fine job on their own.

[PrairieDog]

I was speaking about eyemissgilmour, not you. I think that's where we got our wires crossed. I tune out eyemissgilmour. I find much of his style very difficult to engage with. I thought I had made it clear that though we have had some tricky dynamics, that I don't have those same issues with you. I enjoy discussing facts, however I do admit I am not interested in wading through even more Peterson stuff. It just doesn't interest me any longer. His time is up in my mind and I think he'll start to fade away eventually. Anyways, we can agree to disagree for sure. I honestly think in the real world we could sit down and have a good chat about some of these issues and get to the core of our differences a lot easier, and with less confusion. The internet is tricky that way.

I went back and it seems this is my fault! I DID reply to one of your posts in error with my comment and thought I was replying to eyemissgilmour. I see where things went screwy now! Sorry about that!

OK fine. And regarding Peterson, I can understand why you'd be feeling that way. But I disagree. As I stated I don't buy everything he says, but what I do I find very relevant and beneficial, as do many others. Obviously anyone is free to take it or leave it.

See, here is one place we totally agree!

The whole point I have been trying to make is that many people slap a broad label on someone because they have a certain belief on one issue. That label means that the person automatically has a whole other set of beliefs that fall under or beside that label (in the eye of the one issuing the label):

Pro-Immigration limitations and border control? Racist!
Pro-multiculturalism? Libtard!
Pro-life? Sexist!
Pro-choice? Baby killer!
Believe only 2 genders really exist? Transphobe!
etc.

Then one can justify completely ignoring them, or alternatively going on the attack with behaviour that would be out of place at a 4-year old's birthday party, and then pat themselves and fellow members of their flock on the back for not deviating from the acceptable narrative and really giving it to those (insert label here).

Those of us in the middle just shake our heads. But if I only have two real choices on election day I'm going with the more pragmatic one. For example, I'm hearing something along the lines of "No borders at all" from the left (Democrats like Ocasio-Cortez and the like. Yes I know she's the Democratic Sarah Palin but that doesn't mean she won't have support), as well as no prisons, no profits for companies, etc. These are obviously ridiculous but that's being pushed forward.

If my choice on election day is: 1 - A wall, or 2 - No borders? I'm taking the wall 10 out of 10 times.

(I'm Canadian, but if I had the choice between Trudeau and Trump - I'd vote for Trump. That's a hypothetical everyone, and obviously it's not realistic, so please don't call me a pro-Trumper. But I think Trudeau is so far off base with his leftist [yes I said it] policies that I would choose Trump over him. I would not like it but it would be the logical choice, because I like the other choice even less...by a long shot. That's how Trump got elected).

[Godin]

Now Trump is polarizing the members of Dobber site. He can't be stopped.

[PrairieDog]

Now Trump is polarizing the members of Dobber site. He can't be stopped.

Well some of us are actually having a discussion so that's a positive. As long as it's civil, opposing dialogue and debate is a good thing (stressful as it can be).

(btw I'm not at either pole I think both extremes are bad for everyone)

[doulos]

The whole point I have been trying to make is that many people slap a broad label on someone because they have a certain belief on one issue. That label means that the person automatically has a whole other set of beliefs that fall under or beside that label (in the eye of the one issuing the label):

Pro-Immigration limitations and border control? Racist!
Pro-multiculturalism? Libtard!
Pro-life? Sexist!
Pro-choice? Baby killer!
Believe only 2 genders really exist? Transphobe!
etc.

Then one can justify completely ignoring them, or alternatively going on the attack with behaviour that would be out of place at a 4-year old's birthday party, and then pat themselves and fellow members of their flock on the back for not deviating from the acceptable narrative and really giving it to those (insert label here).

Okay, with you so far.

Those of us in the middle just shake our heads. But if I only have two real choices on election day I'm going with the more pragmatic one. For example, I'm hearing something along the lines of "No borders at all" from the left (Democrats like Ocasio-Cortez and the like. Yes I know she's the Democratic Sarah Palin but that doesn't mean she won't have support), as well as no prisons, no profits for companies, etc. These are obviously ridiculous but that's being pushed forward.

If my choice on election day is: 1 - A wall, or 2 - No borders? I'm taking the wall 10 out of 10 times.

(I'm Canadian, but if I had the choice between Trudeau and Trump - I'd vote for Trump. That's a hypothetical everyone, and obviously it's not realistic, so please don't call me a pro-Trumper. But I think Trudeau is so far off base with his leftist [yes I said it] policies that I would choose Trump over him. I would not like it but it would be the logical choice, because I like the other choice even less...by a long shot. That's how Trump got elected).

But here is where things get confusing for me.

First, I only know a bit about Ocasio-Cortez, but I did not think she believed things like you claim. No prisons. No profits for companies. No borders. I'd like to see evidence of this.

However, let's assume for a moment that she does believe those things. Someone who is that far outside the Democratic party mainstream would likely never become party leader. Just look at the things the Democratic party did to make sure Bernie Sanders was undermined and that much is clear. So, why are you concerned? They are not policies that have a real chance of becoming a thing. You say that if your choice is a wall vs no borders then you choose a wall. Well, ok, but in reality you're getting neither one given to you because the Democratic party was never putting forth no borders as an option, and this wall is never getting built either (better fencing, yes, but not a wall that resembles anything like the prototypes Trump was looking at early on). So you're putting forth options that don't represent reality.

Then you end with what is the most stunning to me, that you like Trudeau less than Donald Trump by a long shot (and that you're part of a very large number of people in both countries who likely believe the same). I cannot put into words how shocking that reality is for me, and ultimately how depressing. When I hear statements like that I get pretty discouraged at the state of the world, though I do think I need to keep a more positive outlook. The world my kids are raised in (particularly as a Canadian) is pretty great overall, and generally we are making progress towards a better world, even if we get a few bumps in the road like Trump and Doug Ford to remind people like me that voting is important (something I avoided doing for years, but very recently went back to)

[lobo1969]

Then you end with what is the most stunning to me, that you like Trudeau less than Donald Trump by a long shot (and that you're part of a very large number of people in both countries who likely believe the same). I cannot put into words how shocking that reality is for me, and ultimately how depressing. When I hear statements like that I get pretty discouraged at the state of the world, though I do think I need to keep a more positive outlook. The world my kids are raised in (particularly as a Canadian) is pretty great overall, and generally we are making progress towards a better world, even if we get a few bumps in the road like Trump and Doug Ford to remind people like me that voting is important (something I avoided doing for years, but very recently went back to)

Canadians who gleefully choose Trump over Trudeau is distressing development. Those people are falling to a populist trap and are willing to turn a blind eye to blatant tendencies in 'their guy' like overt sexism, passive-aggressive racism, perpetual LYING, extreme narcissism, lack of moral compass, and total lack of empathy towards friends or foes. Trump isn't even really a conservative in the traditional sense. If he wasn't protected by the office of the presidency then he could very easily be headed to jail!
Trudeau haters tend to hate his style, perceived lack of intellect, or who his father was but can't seem to overwise articulate a more convincing argument that JT really is a bad person or really a bad leader. So saying Trump > Trudeau is really a statement about who you are as a person then anything it says about Trump/Trudeau.

[GSD]

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...-of-liberalism

Moral of the story..."Get your own house in order."

Political correctness is an issue, but like is often the case the "truth" lies somewhere in between. Trumps antagonistic, repugnant and out right untruthful statements are not the answer to political correctness. Why can't we be frank with out being obnoxious?

[Wonko]

This is just my opinion but I need to vent.

Trump is repugnant. He is morally bankrupt and he sets a terrible example for our children in every aspect of his life. Is there anyone on this site who would want their children to turn out like Donald Trump? Honestly. All BS aside. Would you be a proud parent if Trump was your son? Just curious.

[Godin]

This is just my opinion but I need to vent.

Trump is repugnant. He is morally bankrupt and he sets a terrible example for our children in every aspect of his life. Is there anyone on this site who would want their children to turn out like Donald Trump? Honestly. All BS aside. Would you be a proud parent if Trump was your son? Just curious.

I'm not even proud that he is from the same planet.

[The Comish]

This is just my opinion but I need to vent.

Trump is repugnant. He is morally bankrupt and he sets a terrible example for our children in every aspect of his life. Is there anyone on this site who would want their children to turn out like Donald Trump? Honestly. All BS aside. Would you be a proud parent if Trump was your son? Just curious.

I'm not even proud that he is from the same planet.

I'm in complete agreement on Trump, however, is Hillary Clinton any better? She is more well spoken and politically savvy to be sure, but at her core, she is as morally bankrupt and corrupt as Trump. Fine choices the American people had.