Is Kuznetsov amongst the absolute elite officially?

[Axeman33]

So by this logic Joe Thornton was never elite? He scored 30 goals twice in his career, but there's no chance you could ever argue he wasn't elite for many years. As a sidebar, a crime he was left out of the top 100 players of all time with Malkin as well.

Anyone can argue elite status based on your definition of elite.

[ericdaoust]

I'm not surprised at all by this thread. The first post defines the question pretty clearly but the thread title uses the word "elite" which means different things to different people. Garbage in, garbage out.

[NoDoughty]

So by this logic Joe Thornton was never elite? He scored 30 goals twice in his career, but there's no chance you could ever argue he wasn't elite for many years. As a sidebar, a crime he was left out of the top 100 players of all time with Malkin as well.

I knew I would get a comment like this. Of course there are exceptions. If Thornton gets 20 goals and 80 assists, that's elite. But, Joe Thornton of the last 10 years is not elite to me, and again I'm talking in a fantasy context here. I'm not interested in 20 goals and 120 SOG in the first or second round of the draft even if he winds up with 85 points. Sorry.

[forumname]

We need to stop having these senseless semantic arguments about who is and who isn't "elite". It doesn't mean anything! Talk in real, measurable terms! Is he a top 10 scorer? Is he a top 5 center? Etcetera

[Axeman33]

I hate the word elite.

[FrozenInferno]

Like many others in this thread I use the word 'elite' lightly, but to me a player in that upper echelon is someone who:

- Averages comfortably above point-per-game over his career

- Can put up 85-90+ points pretty regularly and/or consistently score 40-50 goals

- Racks up hardware and leads revelant categories above and beyond his peers more than once, not a flash in the pan type like Johnathan Cheechoo for example

- Passes the 'holy %&#$ did he REALLY just do that?! ' eye test on an almost nightly basis

Kuznetsov is a very good player but in my eye he's got a ways to go before I'll call him elite

[theblazingrookie]

Like many others in this thread I use the word 'elite' lightly, but to me a player in that upper echelon is someone who:

- Averages comfortably above point-per-game over his career

- Can put up 85-90+ points pretty regularly and/or consistently score 40-50 goals

- Racks up hardware and leads revelant categories above and beyond his peers more than once, not a flash in the pan type like Johnathan Cheechoo for example

- Passes the 'holy %&#$ did he REALLY just do that?! ' eye test on an almost nightly basis

Kuznetsov is a very good player but in my eye he's got a ways to go before I'll call him elite

It would really love to know why?

[FrozenInferno]

It would really love to know why?

Why what?

[HonkyTonkMan]

I'm not surprised at all by this thread. The first post defines the question pretty clearly but the thread title uses the word "elite" which means different things to different people. Garbage in, garbage out.

I could have clarified better no doubt (I'm the OP). What I meant was after the Unicorns I mentioned by name (Mcdavid, Sid, Kucherov etc), is Kuzy "right there" (so in the next tier - Seguin, Scheifele, Matthews, etc).

I don't feel like Kuzy was before (probably in tier 3) but based on 2015-16 and this year; with the added goal scoring, is he now?

Cheers

[FinnishFlash]

I wouldn't consider Kuz elite. Elite to me is reserved for those who are measurably above everyone else. In fantasy terms, those guys are McDavid, Crosby and Ovy. There are a few guys who have "Elite" seasons, but unless it's an annual thing I don't consider them elite overall (for example, Giroux).

Kuz is a top 20 player, but moreso in that 10 to 20 range - there are acceptable arguments for all of that "2nd tier"

[All-in]

Who would you draft for a keeper, points only between Panarin, Stone, Kuznetsov, Couturier & Rakell?
I like the fact Panarin, Stone & Rakell or wingers... but I might not miss Kuznetsov if he becomes elite!

[Axeman33]

For me, it's between Panarin and Kuznetsov. Without knowing the rest of your roster and who else you already own, it's hard to say who I like more. I like both a lot and both are pretty close for me.

[All-in]

Thanks. I'm pretty sure as well Panarin will be draft before my rank so I'm really hesitating between Stone (W) and Kunetzov (C).

I'm aiming the title next year (I finished 3rd this year but my team is younger).

He would be an upgrade on Couture or Horvat on my team;
Couture, Logan, SJ
Draisaitl, Leon, Edm
McDavid, Connor, Edm
Seguin, Tyler, Dal
Horvat, Bo, Van (Bench)
Miller, JT, TB (Bench)

As Stone would be an upgrade over Duchene I guess;
Duchene, Matt, Ott
Kucherov, Nikita, TB
Marner, Mitchell, Tor
Pavelski, Joe, SJ
Buchnevich, Pavel, NYR (Bench)
Lindholm, Elias, Car (Bench)

[MZac]

I'd take Kuzy over Stone here. Center is an easier position to fill but your wingers are strong going into next season and kuzy is the better player imo.

[Call of Doughty]

For what its worth, both Button (TV) and Ferraro (radio) used the word elite this past week to describe him as a player. I think he is just getting going and will rip it up in years coming. I would consider him in the top 12 for offensive forwards and perhaps top 7-8 for raw talent alone.