Is Kuznetsov amongst the absolute elite officially?

[FrozenInferno]

Backstrom got his 86pts away from Ovie season before last. Pretty sure he was playing with Oshie and Kuz was playing with Ovie. Their production does seem to flip flop year over year, maybe 2018-19 will be Nicky's turn again. Or maybe Kuz and his youth will start to pull away for good now.

[Pengwin7]

re: "Elite", it needs to be defined.

For many, Elite usually means top 3-5 NHL players. It does for me. If so, no Kuznetsov is not a top 3-5 NHL player.
For some, Elite has come to mean 80+pts or "point per game". I think he'll do that in the new higher-scoring NHL.

So, he's either Elite or he's not... clear.as.mud.

[lucafen4]

re: "Elite", it needs to be defined.

For many, Elite usually means top 3-5 NHL players. It does for me. If so, no Kuznetsov is not a top 3-5 NHL player.
For some, Elite has come to mean 80+pts or "point per game". I think he'll do that in the new higher-scoring NHL.

So, he's either Elite or he's not... clear.as.mud.

I'm more on this side of things. elite means it's something 99% of people can't do - Perhaps Elite is above superstar for me. One season does not make you elite - it gives you an elite season. It really brings the conversation down to McDavid, Crosby, Kucherov as far as elite goes.. Giroux was teasing with this label 4 years ago and is again knocking. Mack is also knocking. There are several others - but that just creates sub-elite class, or a second tier

[SeaDawg]

I firmly believe Kuznetsov is the best player in Washington, but I don't think he can score over 90 pts. I think he is limited to 80-85 pt range most seasons, and possibly less than that once Ovechkin slows down. How many more years can OV score 40+ goals? This past season Ovechkin, like many NHLers, feasted on the power play and went from 33 goals the year before to 49 this season. Kuznetsov, although a great player on his own, definitely benefited from OV's resurgence. Will OV score 40+ next year? Maybe. But soon enough he will slow down and then Kuznetsov will have a harder time reaching 80+ pts and 90 is pretty much out of the question.

I also think losing Carlson to free agency will really hurt the power play, which will also impact Kuznetsov's production next year.

This past season is hard to gauge for many players, but for some more than others there are signs that they won't be able to repeat. I have confidence in Mackinnon, for example, to come close to repeating next year (but I consider him elite). Giroux, Voracek, Kuznetsov, and many others...I'm not so sure.

[lucafen4]

I firmly believe Kuznetsov is the best player in Washington, but I don't think he can score over 90 pts. I think he is limited to 80-85 pt range most seasons, and possibly less than that once Ovechkin slows down. How many more years can OV score 40+ goals? This past season Ovechkin, like many NHLers, feasted on the power play and went from 33 goals the year before to 49 this season. Kuznetsov, although a great player on his own, definitely benefited from OV's resurgence. Will OV score 40+ next year? Maybe. But soon enough he will slow down and then Kuznetsov will have a harder time reaching 80+ pts and 90 is pretty much out of the question.

I also think losing Carlson to free agency will really hurt the power play, which will also impact Kuznetsov's production next year.

This past season is hard to gauge for many players, but for some more than others there are signs that they won't be able to repeat. I have confidence in Mackinnon, for example, to come close to repeating next year (but I consider him elite). Giroux, Voracek, Kuznetsov, and many others...I'm not so sure.

I can see Ovie scoring 40+ for another 4+ years. Father time just doesn't hit some the same as it hits others. It's interesting that Ovie can maintain this level of play based on how he plays in comparison to others that play this banger style game. Corey Perry is a pretty good example of someone that is not aging nearly as well.

[Canucks_fan18]

Let's not get this muddled too much. We have now entered the McDavid era and honestly it's McDavid and everyone else. He's on a tier by himself as far as production goes. Now if were talking real life and ability to impact a game. Kuzy is now considered elite.

[ericdaoust]

Let's not get this muddled too much. We have now entered the McDavid era and honestly it's McDavid and everyone else. He's on a tier by himself as far as production goes. Now if were talking real life and ability to impact a game. Kuzy is now considered elite.

If he really is considered elite then I'll let someone else burn a top pick on him and I'll have a better chance of winning my pool.

[Canucks_fan18]

If he really is considered elite then I'll let someone else burn a top pick on him and I'll have a better chance of winning my pool.

Again comes down to definition. I think taking him in the top 10 is ill advised in fantasy hockey. Taking him 10 to 20 although not a value pick, one could understand. Again my post states he's an elite real life NHL center. Look at this years playoffs he has out shined pretty much every center he played against outside of Crosby.

[lucafen4]

Let's not get this muddled too much. We have now entered the McDavid era and honestly it's McDavid and everyone else. He's on a tier by himself as far as production goes. Now if were talking real life and ability to impact a game. Kuzy is now considered elite.

Claude Lemieux would be considered playoff elite

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Let's not get this muddled too much. We have now entered the McDavid era and honestly it's McDavid and everyone else. He's on a tier by himself as far as production goes. Now if were talking real life and ability to impact a game. Kuzy is now considered elite.

Claude Lemieux would be considered playoff elite

[Canucks_fan18]

Claude Lemieux would be considered playoff elite

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Claude Lemieux would be considered playoff elite

I am not talking playoff elite. I am talking real life NHL elite. This is just his coming out party. How many centers in the league would you rather have? I think he's right there with Stammer and Tavares.

[blayze]

Claude Lemieux would be considered playoff elite

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Claude Lemieux would be considered playoff elite

Jake Guentzel's elite too then.

[Canucks_fan18]

Jake Guentzel's elite too then.

If were being silly then yes Justin Williams as well.

[NoDoughty]

To me, you can't be an elite fantasy forward (not talking real life here) unless you can at least consistently score 30+ goals a season. A 20-60 stat line is not equivalent to 30-50 IMO. Goals are harder to get than assists, which makes them more valuable (unless your league does something weird and weights assists higher). It also implies a weakness in goal-related categories like SOG, PPG, GWG, etc. That's primarily why Backstrom has always been tier 2-3 to me. Kuz has never scored 30 goals in a season before, but it is encouraging that he is shooting more this postseason. I gotta see him do it over a full season now.

[Seeds of Grapes]

He's probably in my top 20 but not in my top 10.

This.

[iscooter204]

To me, you can't be an elite fantasy forward (not talking real life here) unless you can at least consistently score 30+ goals a season. A 20-60 stat line is not equivalent to 30-50 IMO. Goals are harder to get than assists, which makes them more valuable (unless your league does something weird and weights assists higher). It also implies a weakness in goal-related categories like SOG, PPG, GWG, etc. That's primarily why Backstrom has always been tier 2-3 to me. Kuz has never scored 30 goals in a season before, but it is encouraging that he is shooting more this postseason. I gotta see him do it over a full season now.

So by this logic Joe Thornton was never elite? He scored 30 goals twice in his career, but there's no chance you could ever argue he wasn't elite for many years. As a sidebar, a crime he was left out of the top 100 players of all time with Malkin as well.