Shipychov back to the KHL

[Rodgort]

You are correct, he can just sign with a new NHL team if he wanted to be in the NHL. That's a good point. So theoretically though, he needs to be placed on waivers, couldn't someone just scoop him up then with no choice by Ship if a team really wanted him?

I think this part is up to Vegas. They can just keep him suspended and not pay him.

But yeah they want him to sign off on not signing in the NHL again (likely for this year)

Anyway I was excited about cheering for a new expansion team when Vegas came in as they were pretty exciting (minus the whole expansion draft results), now I just hope they lose and fail for a long time

[tweetdrivr]

I think this part is up to Vegas. They can just keep him suspended and not pay him.

But yeah they want him to sign off on not signing in the NHL again (likely for this year)

Anyway I was excited about cheering for a new expansion team when Vegas came in as they were pretty exciting (minus the whole expansion draft results), now I just hope they lose and fail for a long time

Totally agree. All this asset management BS has made me hate this team.

[Rodgort]

That would be with his current contract...they'd be locked in for 2 yrs...which is a major sticking point.

I don't get this about gm's like "We can't trust his second year if he doesn't do good, but we are fine signing Tanner Glass" or "...but we are fine signing Jordan Nolan to a 4 year deal" or "... we are fine giving Backes $6Mx6 years even though he is currently on a decline" or "...but we will wait for a day before the season starts to sign Jagr" or "... but we won't sign AA to a fair deal even though our roster is awful" or "...I think Erat and [whatever his name is] is a fair deal for this Filip Forsberg kid, we also drafted Tom Wilson"

NHL GM's are dumb

[tweetdrivr]

...NHL GM's are dumb

"I think Shea Weber is better for this team long term than PK Subban"

Yes, yes they are.

[Dennis]

I love all this talk about sample size and at the same time people are acting like they're some sort of Shipachyov experts after watching him play less than 32 minutes in the NHL. Sure, that sample size is plenty to know he's a terrible hockey player and doesn't deserve to play in the NHL... But when someone like me who has been watching him play for years makes comments about him, I'm clearly wrong and don't know what I'm talking about? That makes sense.

The hold-up right now is most likely that Vegas won't terminate his contract until they have written agreement that Shipachyov won't sign with any other NHL team. He can't play in the KHL until his contract is terminated (well, technically he could but that would hurt the relationship between the two leagues), so Vegas holds all the cards in this case. Shipachyov probably doesn't have any other choice but to sign that agreement and stay in Russia.

There was no real trade interest because he's unproven and has that 2nd year on his contract which is a killer for other teams. I'm sure other teams would offer him a 1 year contract if they could but they don't want to commit to that contract because they don't know him well enough. They know pretty well what kind of player he is but not what sort of person he is, so taking that 2nd year to their cap wouldn't be a smart idea.

Do they hold all the cards? Could he not just retire from the NHL, keep his signing bonus, and the only consequence would be that Vegas keeps his rights in perpetuity? Which isn't relevant if he doesn't plan on returning to the NHL.

[Hoopo]

So McPhee has his price high

On this note, an article out today

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/s...t-termination/

throws out the possibility that McPhee is scared someone is going to claim Shipachyov on unconditional waivers, which may be the reason his contract isn't terminated yet. I think McPhee is playing a much bigger part here than a lot of people want to believe

[Jouko-Pouko]

OK, here's my last post about the discussion that was started yesterday but somehow ended up taking a really weird twist in the end.

No, I'm not an expert in Russian culture or anything like that. I also don't think I need to be to be able to comment about Russian hockey players on a hockey forum. I guess you could say I know as much about Russia as Americans know about Canada. I don't know if that's a lot but I also don't really care. I also haven't talked to thousands of Americans or Russians. Heck, I probably haven't even talked to thousands of Finnish people and I've lived in Finland all my life.

I do know a thing or two about Russian hockey players, though. And I know a thing or two about Shipachyov as well. Last season, he was playing on the KHL championship winning SKA team which also included players like Pavel Datsyuk, Ilya Kovalchuk, Yevgeni Dadonov and Nikita Gusev, and Shipachyov was the best player on that team. He isn't better than what Datsyuk and Kovalchuk were in their prime but that was the case last season. Most people believe Datsyuk and Kovalchuk could jump right back into a top-6 spot in the NHL, and Dadonov is currently playing on the 1st line in Florida.

When thinking about a comparable, the only one we can use is Alexander Radulov. I know there are differences like Radulov having previous experience from the NHL and being a winger but when thinking about Radulov's time in the KHL, he showed similar offensive dominance as Shipachyov. Sergei Mozyakin might be the best KHL player of all time but he never made the jump to the NHL, so we can't really use him as a comparable. Panarin wasn't as dominant when he was playing in the KHL, although he took a big jump in development after that.

Vegas obviously knew what kind of talent Shipachyov was, otherwise they wouldn't have offered him a $9M contract. What happened after that is where everything went wrong. Their mistakes related to reading the trade market are well known but the biggest mistake they made was they forgot to handle Shipachyov's transition from the KHL to the NHL. They should have spent the training camp and preseason allowing him to play as much as possible, make mistakes and learn from them. Shipachyov has a lot of natural offensive talent but after playing in Europe for a very long time, he needed to learn the North American way of playing hockey. He needed to make adjustments to his game but he was never really given the chance to do that.

When Shipachyov was demoted to the AHL for the first time, he was definitely embarrassed and confused about the whole situation. But he wasn't required to report to the AHL team, so I think he got over that. When he was demoted for the 2nd time and this time he was required to report to the AHL team, I think at least all European hockey reporters started expecting him to terminate his contract and return to Russia. A 30-year-old KHL superstar making $4.5M just wouldn't take that, and it was pretty obvious what would happen next. Maybe it wasn't as obvious to everyone as I had thought but it definitely didn't come as a surprise to anyone following the European hockey reporters.

Anyone following the European hockey reporters would also know just how much all this has hurt Vegas's reputation among European players. Their chances of signing another European free agent have been lowered by a wide margin. Their chances of signing Gusev took a nosedive as well. This is by far the biggest thing for Vegas which will hurt them in the long run. Every year, there are good free agents coming from Europe. Most of them don't amount to anything but it's all worth it if you find the next Panarin, Radulov or Dadonov from that group. The chances of Vegas doing that now are very, very low.

The other side to all this is Shipachyov's trade value if Vegas had handled the situation differently. If things went perfectly, I think Vegas could have received three very good young pieces in a trade either next summer or at the 2019 trade deadline. And by very good young pieces, I mean late 1st round picks or prospects with similar value. Considering Vancouver got two very good prospects (Goldobin and Dahlen) for Hansen and Burrows, I think that's reasonable. Maybe they only would have received one or two of those pieces but either way, that's much better than what happened now.

And finally, saying there are only 5 NHL fans who still care about Shipachyov is the most ignorant thing I have seen in a long time, considering there are thousands or maybe even tens of thousands of hockey fans in Europe who follow both the NHL and the KHL. Implying that we're not real NHL fans is just stupid. I mean, I watch over 100 NHL games per year. If that's not being a real fan, I don't know what is.

[Mr. Guru]

Ship messed up when he chased the cash and signed with Vegas; an expansion team.

Brutal spot.

Dadanov playing with Hubs and Barkov lol.
Panarin with Kane.
etc.

[rataylor22]

Man. Some of y'all are the most butthurt I've ever seen always.

Apologize? You are aware this is an internet forum.

Fine. I apologize for being wrong about sample size, I'm assuming since this is what's required that Mr. rangerdanger will apologize about his sample diversity issues.

Anyways, I agree with everything Juoko has said in every post.

There is a zero percent chance this doesn't affect Vegas signing European players (both drafted and undrafted), college FAs, and UFAs.

[cheese_cake]

Thanks for your insight on the European coverage + situation. I haven't read the 11 previous pages but your last post was pretty much all I wanted to know on this issue.

[hockeymanG23]

You’d have to think that Vegas gave Ship some promises they felt confident in that others couldn’t because the others knew where they stood as a team overall but when the team came together they felt the squeeze and didn’t live up to their “offer” when he could’ve easily made as much in the K

Imagine you’re a legit executive in your field and multiple firms are after your services. One gives you a unique opportunity so you accept and when you show up they say, “about that guaranteed spot in management, we don’t have a free office because these other chumps we hired after you have seniority for whatever reason. We’re going to send you to the warehouse until it’s figured out.”

Then they call you up to management,.... and send you back to the warehouse. Screw that bullshit.

[Mr. Guru]

For sure Vegas screwed up here.

But so did Ship.

Two screw ups = this situation.

[hockeymanG23]

For sure Vegas screwed up here.

But so did Ship.

Two screw ups = this situation.

He definitely picked the wrong team, seemed weird to me that he went there from the start without even knowing the roster makeup

[2014olympicgold]

That would be with his current contract...they'd be locked in for 2 yrs...which is a major sticking point.

So you're saying GMs don't think he's good enough for the risk...hmmmmm.

Some guys on here were saying he's an NHLer for sure, a C1 even to some teams (potential to be). If GMs really were impressed with his game, a 2yr deal at 4.5mill (only actually paying him 2.5mill this yr too) isn't that bad of a contract. And all goes to hell on the new team, he's already wanting to go to the KHL, so terminate his contract and let him leave.

Guys who are C3s were getting paid 4mill in free agency, or close to it with longer term.

[FFleming5]

So you're saying GMs don't think he's good enough for the risk...hmmmmm.

Some guys on here were saying he's an NHLer for sure, a C1 even to some teams (potential to be). If GMs really were impressed with his game, a 2yr deal at 4.5mill (only actually paying him 2.5mill this yr too) isn't that bad of a contract. And all goes to hell on the new team, he's already wanting to go to the KHL, so terminate his contract and let him leave.

Guys who are C3s were getting paid 4mill in free agency, or close to it with longer term.

Agree, at $4.5M a year, he could go to a lot of teams that need a C2, however, there may be a lot of barriers in the way to make this happen. McPhee may have a list of teams he won't trade to. And Ship is probably checked out on NA after his experience here. Guy is definitely unhappy and is already in a country where he cannot speak the language and is basically alone. ESPN actually had a decent article about Russian players and their experiences with the language gap. Even went into how Kaner/Toews pretend to talk in fake Russian accents to Anisimov/Panarin (Which is kinda insulting to say the least actually but I digress - and also what do I know, I'm not in that locker room) - There was way more to the article btw. I would rarely ever reference an ESPN hockey article but I thought this was a good one. Point is that transitioning to a new country when you don't speak the language (Or even have the same alphabet is difficult enough without other BS problems).

Ship wants back to where he was arguably the best player on the best team. This is sad because as stated by Jouko he was better than Kovalchuck, Datsyuk, Panarin, and Dadonov on that SKA team, would've been great to see him in NA