**Buzzword Alert** Roto League Parity

[olafson1393]

Wasn't sure where to post this one but I've got a question for all fellow-roto-commissioners. I've got a fairly small league set up on ESPN - 9 teams (was up to 12 at one point), 9 active forwards, 5 active d, 2 active goalies and 5 bench. We count G, A, PIM, BLK, HIT, PPP, SOG, SV, W, SO, SV%. This is our first year as a keeper league, I introduced the keeper league format to the league in hopes of retaining owners, who seemed to be dwindling over the past 2-3 years. I have no idea how many of the 9 will commit for next season but I think a lot of the reason for the dwindling interest seems to be... **Buzzword Alert**.. League parity, or lack thereof. The last two years we've had the same champion, not myself, and by quite a wide margin, he obviously has a firm grasp on the system we've been adhering to. He plays the waiver wire smart, and has been quick to drop injured players, even stars if it looks to be long term.

What I'm wondering is if there are any suggestions that you have in terms of rule changes that would make for a more even distribution of points throughout the season, leading to more interest from guys toward the bottom or out of much of a race. I've considered the idea of changing to a H2H league, but I'm not sure if its too late to switch to that or if ESPN allows for roto scoring in a h2h league. I'm able to see everyone's rosters and from what I can tell, the bottom 4 teams have all but completely given up and disregarded even setting their lineups for the last 6 weeks of the season, I feel like the league is on life support even though the guys at the top seem to be really active.

[Nehithaw]

The Comish should have an excellent answer for you - let me shine the Comish-light and see how fast he responds.

[Pengwin7]

The more categories... the more complicated the scoring... the more likely that Mr.Numbers (the guy who is super good at ROTO) is going to dominate your league.

Even here on the forums... there's a couple guys (temek, Lord of the Rinks, etc.)... if you invite these guys to your league, they are going to finish high.
ROTO is far more than just hockey sense. It's about setting up some kind of tracking system (Excel... or FHG) that keeps tabs on every team's standings on a "per game pace" method.

Luck, too, does play a small part in ROTO - but ROTO is about as skill-centric as full-year fantasy hockey competitions go.

I knew a lot of guys growing up who watched a TON of hockey and couldn't win a ROTO pool.

The ROTO make-up of a champion, IMO:
60% Numbers-Prowess (stat crunching, pattern recognition, etc.)
30% Hockey-Knowledge (watching actual hockey, knowing which players will rise statistically. This is MOST valuable in the start-of-year draft when the "numbers" for break-out stars are not established.)
10% Luck

League parity... well, that's when you have several members that have similar full values.
But it's likely - in most leagues - that only 1-4 GMs have that "Numbers" skill-set of their own or... *cough* pay somebody to run the numbers for them *cough*... (lots of adjectives for that last phrase, IMO).

Anyways - the thread you started suggests you are looking to make the league FUN again, by finding parity.
Personally, I suggest you may need to suck it up and realize the other guy (or gal) is better than you and will continue to be.
If that's the case... then switch to H2H.
H2H is a lot more fun than ROTO and the best guy does NOT always win. He often doesn't.

[olafson1393]

I think H2H will probably be the answer, that is if I can get the ship turned in that direction before the last few walk the plank... for interest sake:

ROTISSERIE POINTS
RK	TEAM		SKATERS								GOALIES					TOTAL PTS	TOTAL CHG
	G	A	PIM	PPP	SOG	HIT	BLK		W	SV	SO	SV%
1	Kessel's Nutritionist		9	9	4	9	9	9	9		9	9	9	9		94	+0
2	Florida Futures		5	4	9	4	7	8	4		8	7	7	8		71	+2.5
3	Klatt Trick		8	6	7	8	8	7	6		6	8	4	1		69	+0
4	Team Pun		6	3	8	5.5	6	6	8		4	5	2.5	3		57	-0.5
5	Team Blair		2	8	6	5.5	2	5	7		7	6	5.5	2		56	-0.5
6	Neugebauers With Attitude		7	5	3	3	3	4	5		5	2	8	4		49	+0
7	Team Dufault		3	7	2	7	4	2	2		2	4	2.5	5		40.5	+0
8	Moves like Jagr		4	2	5	1	5	3	1		1	1	1	6		30	+0
9	Saskatoon Muff Divers		1	1	1	2	1	1	3		3	3	5.5	7		28.5	-1.5

[butch]

if it becomes a keeper league he'd be less inclined to drop an injured star player.

I prefer h2h or simply fp's myself but I have alot of respect for guys that only play / love roto .

[The Comish]

The Comish should have an excellent answer for you - let me shine the Comish-light and see how fast he responds.

The Comish is in slow brain mode thanks to a tough day at work. I'm not going to top what Pengwin7 has put down - that guy is one smart cookie.

I think the answer may be to change to a H2H format with keepers. Also, a regular season playoff where the bottom feeders must win the top draft picks (your draft position is directly related to how well you do in the losers bracket).

One final thought - it is possible that the make-up of league owners isn't ideal. I just went through this in my long running keeper league (18 years). It got stale and the make-up of league wasn't made for trading. Trade enquiries would go unanswered and people needed multiple prompts to vote for league rules. Sometimes it's better not to force something that has run its course.

[olafson1393]

One final thought - it is possible that the make-up of league owners isn't ideal. I just went through this in my long running keeper league (18 years). It got stale and the make-up of league wasn't made for trading. Trade enquiries would go unanswered and people needed multiple prompts to vote for league rules. Sometimes it's better not to force something that has run its course.

I think that's always the difficulty when trying to assemble a local league. I'd be the first to admit that the league chemistry isn't exactly bubbling. I think I'll try to convert them to the H2H. I had a tough sell with the 11 of 21 keepers (I would've liked more). Part of the reason I'm trying to assemble a new group for a points only keepers league.

[olafson1393]

Also, this might not be the proper thread for something like this, but I was wondering, for some of the more experienced guys, are there any threads or categories where league rules, and league set up gets discussed a little more? I'm sure it comes up in plenty of random threads but is there an actual designated "Fantasy League Commissioner" category?

[finminer]

My main league (sig) is a roto keeper salary cap auction draft league (say that 3 times fast). Draft cap is $200, in-season cap is $220. This league has been around for a long time with very little turnover, largely because some of the rules specifically target parity:
1) Drafted players can be signed for up to 5 years if you like their salary. Free agents and non-contracted players can be re-upped for 1 year at a $5 increase in salary. Re-ups are the only extensions, so there are quite a few top end players in the auction pool each year. This addresses the issue of overstacked teams; it doesn't mean that someone can't build a powerhouse, just that they can't maintain it year after year.
2) We have a prospect roster of 8. When promoted, prospects can be signed to a 5-year entry level deal at a $5 salary. This makes knowing your prospects a real key, increasing the "hockey knowledge" ratio and reducing the "number crunching" aspect. For example, back when Giroux was a lesser-known prospect, I read about him in the Dobber prospect guide and got him as a throw-in to a larger trade. I promoted him and had him for $5 for 5 years when his open auction value was $40-$50.
3) At the end of the season, we have a parity draft, where each of the 8 teams out of the money can choose 1 unprotected player from the top 4 teams. 5th place picks first. The top 4 can only lose 2 players max; 1st place can protect 3, 2nd place 4, 3rd 5, 4th 6. This does a couple of things: it makes it VERY difficult to repeat (although I came within 2 PIMS this year), and it favors those teams on the verge. It brings in a strategic factor around sacrificing the future for the win this year, trying to make sure I don't lose good contracts or great prospects for nothing in the parity draft.

On top of all this, the increase in cap allows for free trading. There are many deals where a contending team will buy a high end player whose contract is expiring from a lesser team, giving up high end prospects. This also has the effect of boosting those lesser teams. I think every team in the league made at least a few trades over the course of the season.

I like roto much better, because it's the best team over the course of the season. The setup has to be right though. Ideal league size is 10-14, with 10-12 stats. There's too much luck in H2H, and I'm not a fan of using a gazillion stat categories because it makes it too difficult to improve your team by trade, i.e. address particular stats. To me, that's discouraging to trading activity, which I think is key to establishing league relationships and keeping owners.

- - - Updated - - -

oh, let me know if you are interested in seeing our rules and I'll send you the constitution.