How do you guys deal with TRADES in $$$ leagues?

[lektrix]

I\'m planning to start a $$$ league this year (for the first time) and I was wondering how everyone deals with trades that may or may not be even... what kind of system do you guys employ? do you use the default vetoing system (which IMO is stupid because a lot of fair trades get vetoed just for the hell of it)? do you appoint a committee or a trading panel to judge all trades? this seems to be the biggest problem in most of my leagues year in and year out and i want to know how everyone works around it to keep everyone happy, especially if it\'s a $$$ league!

thanks

[Alex McDonald, Age 11]

Leave it up to the commish. If you\'re running a league (and dealing with people\'s money), you should hopefully have a level enough head to rule whether or not a trade is reasonable.

In my experience, if both owners can explain to me why they made the trade, that\'s usually good enough for me.

[peter b.]

right from our league\'s bylaws:

Section 3: Trade Grievances
If a trade has been posted between two GMs on the RLR website, and another GM has an issue with the trade, he may file a grievance. He does so by notifying the Chief Trade Committee Member via email only. The disputing GM must email the Chief with a brief reasoning of his grievance as to why the proposed trade is unfair. This reasoning will be used by the Trade Committee as part of their decision-making process. If two grievances are filed to the Chief during the 48-hour waiting period, the Trade Committee must rule on the trade. If grievances are not filed during the two-day time, the trade will be accepted, and no further grievance may be filed.

Section 4: The Trade Committee
At the draft of each RLR season, the GMs will vote for the current year’s Trade Committee. The Trade Committee (or TC) is responsible for reviewing all trades that have been properly disputed. The Committee will, based on the arguments of the dissenters and traders, as well as their judgment, decide whether the trade in question is unfair. If the TC finds that the trade is fair, the trade will immediately be accepted and completed by the GM through Yahoo. If the trade is found unfair, the trade will immediately be canceled.

The voting for the TC will take place before the start of the draft. Each GM will vote for three GMs they feel would aptly perform the duties of a TC member. The GM may not vote for himself during this process. The votes will be immediately tallied, and the top three vote getters will make up the three members of the TC. In case of a tie between two members for the third spot, all other GMs will vote for one of the two to break the tie. The top vote getter will be the Chief TC Member. The Chief is responsible for acquiring the grievances of a proposed trade. Thus, the Chief must be diligent whenever a trade has been posted, for he alone will receive the official grievances. In case of a two-way tie for the top vote getter, a revote will occur to break the tie. If the top vote getter feels he can not perform the diligent email checking and notifying responsibilities of the Chief TC Member, he may decline the position, and the next highest vote getter will assume the role of the Chief TC Member. If any of the top three vote getters decline a role in the TC, the next highest vote getter will assume the role.

If the Chief receives two grievances for a proposed trade in the allotted 48-hour period, he must contact the other members of the TC and disclose the grievances sent to him. The Chief must then immediately notify the two trading parties that their trade has been officially disputed. Both trading GMs must submit a brief defense of their trade to the TC via email. The TC will use the information to decide whether or not the trade is valid within 24 hours of the official grievance posting. The TC’s decision will be based on a majority vote, excepting in circumstances of trades involving members of the TC.

If one or more members of the TC are involved in a trade, the grievances will go to the highest (or remaining) of the TC members not involved in the trade. The trade review process proceeds normally, up to the final verdict. If one TC member is involved in the proposed trade, the remaining two TC members will vote on the validity of the trade. If two TC members are involved in the trade, the remaining TC member will decide the validity of the trade.

In the case that two TC members vote on a trade involving the other TC member occurs, and the two TC members split their votes, the deadlock will result in the acceptance of the trade. Only a majority vote can overturn the trade.

Any GM can file a grievance to the trade, including members of the TC. Grievance filing TC members will have a vote, unlike TC members involved in the proposed trade.

--------------------------------------

We\'re entering our 2nd year in our keeper league.. the first year no trades even made it to a TC vote..

[peter b.]

Alex McDonald, Age 11 wrote:

Leave it up to the commish. If you\'re running a league (and dealing with people\'s money), you should hopefully have a level enough head to rule whether or not a trade is reasonable.

In my experience, if both owners can explain to me why they made the trade, that\'s usually good enough for me.

ORRRRR.. you could do this.. haha

[lektrix]

Sounds like it can work, but what about leagues where people don\'t really know each other except for the commish? How then can they \"vote\" for 3 TC members?

peter b. wrote:

right from our league\'s bylaws:

Section 3: Trade Grievances
If a trade has been posted between two GMs on the RLR website, and another GM has an issue with the trade, he may file a grievance. He does so by notifying the Chief Trade Committee Member via email only. The disputing GM must email the Chief with a brief reasoning of his grievance as to why the proposed trade is unfair. This reasoning will be used by the Trade Committee as part of their decision-making process. If two grievances are filed to the Chief during the 48-hour waiting period, the Trade Committee must rule on the trade. If grievances are not filed during the two-day time, the trade will be accepted, and no further grievance may be filed.

Section 4: The Trade Committee
At the draft of each RLR season, the GMs will vote for the current year’s Trade Committee. The Trade Committee (or TC) is responsible for reviewing all trades that have been properly disputed. The Committee will, based on the arguments of the dissenters and traders, as well as their judgment, decide whether the trade in question is unfair. If the TC finds that the trade is fair, the trade will immediately be accepted and completed by the GM through Yahoo. If the trade is found unfair, the trade will immediately be canceled.

The voting for the TC will take place before the start of the draft. Each GM will vote for three GMs they feel would aptly perform the duties of a TC member. The GM may not vote for himself during this process. The votes will be immediately tallied, and the top three vote getters will make up the three members of the TC. In case of a tie between two members for the third spot, all other GMs will vote for one of the two to break the tie. The top vote getter will be the Chief TC Member. The Chief is responsible for acquiring the grievances of a proposed trade. Thus, the Chief must be diligent whenever a trade has been posted, for he alone will receive the official grievances. In case of a two-way tie for the top vote getter, a revote will occur to break the tie. If the top vote getter feels he can not perform the diligent email checking and notifying responsibilities of the Chief TC Member, he may decline the position, and the next highest vote getter will assume the role of the Chief TC Member. If any of the top three vote getters decline a role in the TC, the next highest vote getter will assume the role.

If the Chief receives two grievances for a proposed trade in the allotted 48-hour period, he must contact the other members of the TC and disclose the grievances sent to him. The Chief must then immediately notify the two trading parties that their trade has been officially disputed. Both trading GMs must submit a brief defense of their trade to the TC via email. The TC will use the information to decide whether or not the trade is valid within 24 hours of the official grievance posting. The TC’s decision will be based on a majority vote, excepting in circumstances of trades involving members of the TC.

If one or more members of the TC are involved in a trade, the grievances will go to the highest (or remaining) of the TC members not involved in the trade. The trade review process proceeds normally, up to the final verdict. If one TC member is involved in the proposed trade, the remaining two TC members will vote on the validity of the trade. If two TC members are involved in the trade, the remaining TC member will decide the validity of the trade.

In the case that two TC members vote on a trade involving the other TC member occurs, and the two TC members split their votes, the deadlock will result in the acceptance of the trade. Only a majority vote can overturn the trade.

Any GM can file a grievance to the trade, including members of the TC. Grievance filing TC members will have a vote, unlike TC members involved in the proposed trade.

--------------------------------------

We\'re entering our 2nd year in our keeper league.. the first year no trades even made it to a TC vote..

[Narayan]

I run 2 pay leagues with a partner of mine and we make final decisions on any \"lop sided\" trades. The trade would have to be god awful ugly for us to step in and you would hope that people PAYING to be in a league have a little bit of hockey knowledge to stay clear of this anyways.


so leave it up to the commish

[Garbage Goal]

A few friends and I have been doing our league going on 5 years. The first few years there were a select few vetoing trades based on which GM was making them and which guy they felt was benefiting. (example: a GM and I are more competitive with each other than we are with the rest of the league. I made a trade with a guy who looked like he was going to miss playoffs and bolstered my roster and the other guy got draft picks for next year. Typical. This 3rd party GM vetoed simply because he wanted the guys I traded for and felt he had a better offer AFTER he had seen what I gave up...and he didn\'t want me having these players for the playoffs)

Shortly after the league went veto crazy because it happened to other GMs and guys started vetoing out of spite.

We thought about the \"commissioner ruling\" but not everyone trusted his decision making (not sure why). So using yahoo, and rather than hiding behind an anonymous veto, GM were to publicly post their grievance on the message board. If the majority publicly vetoed, the trade was nullified.

This has resulted in ZERO vetoed trades in the last 2 years. Some were a little lopsided but it resulted in more discussion and other GMs(sensible ones) realized the reasoning behind many trades, rather than vetoing to veto.

[mister_mcgoo]

you folks that have these elaborate \'fairness\' rulesin your leagues please don\'t take this the wrong way, but I personally think thats the most ******ed system to try and manage a league behind...committees and evaluation councils and all that bullshit, it actually creates more tension and animosity than it solves. The reality is that there are good trades and bad trades and guess what? Thats the same reality that exists in the real NHL, so let it exist and take its natural course. If you allow managers too much power to veto and intervene they will ALWAYS abuse it and use it to serve their own self interests...this leads to in fighting, accusations and bitterness. The commish decision is actually worse because it makes one person the focal point of all the in fighting and disagreements, avoid that as well. Here are some tips:

1)ensure that your league has only serious and intelligent managers, if you avoid the weekend hockey fan morons from your office in your league chances are you wont have as many bad trades

2)institute a hard trade deadline so that people won\'t be able to seal the championship in the final weeks by trading future picks for studs with a cellar dweller

3)if you must implement a veto system, make the rules explict to define veto-worthy votes as only relevant in cases of collusion or gross negligence

4)make the veto rule overwhelming, a 50% vote is easy to hit on almost any trade, an 80% vote will only come into play if its a horrible trade that is at odds with what you want for your league...perhaps even don\'t ever let the parties involved in the trade vote, they obviously have a vested interest so it might not make sense to count their opinion

[peter b.]

mister_mcgoo wrote:

you folks that have these elaborate \'fairness\' rulesin your leagues please don\'t take this the wrong way, but I personally think thats the most ******ed system to try and manage a league behind...committees and evaluation councils and all that bullshit, it actually creates more tension and animosity than it solves. The reality is that there are good trades and bad trades and guess what? Thats the same reality that exists in the real NHL, so let it exist and take its natural course. If you allow managers too much power to veto and intervene they will ALWAYS abuse it and use it to serve their own self interests...this leads to in fighting, accusations and bitterness. The commish decision is actually worse because it makes one person the focal point of all the in fighting and disagreements, avoid that as well.

I won\'t take it personal you think we\'re ******ed .. hehe..

Problem is our in our league, everyone knows everyone, for the most part.. but not everyone is what you would call the keenest hockey mind. I\'m the commish in our league and would be fine with making the final decisions.. but i doubt anyone else would because I\'m know in our league as the trading shark.. selling ice cubes to eskimos.

Though we have all those rules written out, it has yet to go that far. Our GMs just feel better knowing there\'s a system in place but seldom even use it.

[mister_mcgoo]

peter b. wrote:

I won\'t take it personal you think we\'re ******ed .. hehe..

Problem is our in our league, everyone knows everyone, for the most part.. but not everyone is what you would call the keenest hockey mind. I\'m the commish in our league and would be fine with making the final decisions.. but i doubt anyone else would because I\'m know in our league as the trading shark.. selling ice cubes to eskimos.

Though we have all those rules written out, it has yet to go that far. Our GMs just feel better knowing there\'s a system in place but seldom even use it.

Well it could be that I\'m the ******ed one but you\'re right that every league is different. My leagues have always had super competitive managers so throwing in one or two of those \'eskimos\' causes some real upheaval

[playmaker26]

If people are in a money league, they should be smart and educated. The only trades, in my opinion, that should be vetoed or whatever is collusion. Bad trades happen.