E or J Johnson

[Hockeygenius]

EJ will win a Norris. JJ won\'t!

[Thieving Giraffe]

angus wrote:

Bouwmeester gets little to no hype (strange, considering he was so hyped as a prospect) but is far and away the best young blue-liner in the league.

I assume that you are not talking fantasy terms here? Fantasy-wise I prefer Whitney.

I don\'t think that Phaneuf\'s surpassed him yet in general terms, but he has higher value upside for the simple reason that he can develop into the Scott Stevens mould of inspiring fear into the opposing team\'s best players. He\'s not the skater Bouwmeester is of course, but I think that the physical element of his game has the potential to put him over the top.

[digitalmonkey]

I don\'t think you can go wrong with either, but I like Erik Johnson more.

[angus]

Thieving Giraffe wrote:

angus wrote:

Bouwmeester gets little to no hype (strange, considering he was so hyped as a prospect) but is far and away the best young blue-liner in the league.

I assume that you are not talking fantasy terms here? Fantasy-wise I prefer Whitney.

I don\'t think that Phaneuf\'s surpassed him yet in general terms, but he has higher value upside for the simple reason that he can develop into the Scott Stevens mould of inspiring fear into the opposing team\'s best players. He\'s not the skater Bouwmeester is of course, but I think that the physical element of his game has the potential to put him over the top.

I was not talking fantasy wise. Whitney is by far the most valuable in that regard.

Phaneuf obviously will improve but he is not close to being as good as Bouwmeester right now. He is spotty in his own zone at times and makes questionable decisions with the puck. Sure, he could develop into Scott Stevens.. but I think you are selling Bouwmeester short. His defensive and physical play has definitely been a surprise, considering many expected him to be a flashy offensive guy.

[Naslund]

Is anyone else surprised by the similar points predicted in the guide for both players? In fact, if you take into account the extra PIMs and the slightly higher goal total predicted it looks like buying “low” on Jack is a good idea right now. I expected the depth on D in LA would have a greater impact for the upcoming year and if that’s the general feeling out there he might be available for a much lower price than Eric.

[angus]

Jack Johnson has Visnovsky, Stuart, Preissing, and Blake to battle with for PP time.

Erik Johnson has Backman and Brewer. I think the Kings are going to bring JJ along slowly, and try and work on his defensive play first. The Blues are going to be patient with EJ as well, but he will get a greater opportunity to produce right away.

[lanky522]

angus wrote:

EJ will be the best defenseman out of the young crop (including JJ, Weber, and Phaneuf). I don\'t think he will surpass Jay Bouwmeester, but he is the total package.

with all the northwest games you see, I would\'ve thought your opinion of phaneuf would be higher...

I can\'t believe you say that bouwmeester is better (fantasy wise) than phaneuf... Bouwmeester is two years older, has been in the nhl two years more and has yet to have a season that matches phaneufs worst (points wise). That\'s not even mentioning the fact that phaneuf had more goals in his rookie campaign than bouwmeester did in his first three combined...

I like bouwmeester and everything but in my eyes, phaneuf is the overall package if there ever was one. He\'s been in the top five in defender goals, powerplay goals, and shots on goal in both seasons so far. His penalty minutes totals are also one of the best in the league among defenders that actually put up points.

The last time someone scored as many goals as a defender as phaneuf in their first two seasons was in 1980-82 when coffey scored 38 (1 more than phaneuf) in his first two seasons with the oilers. Other than that, bourque did it one year prior in 1979-81 with 44.

Either way, I\'d say that phaneuf is in pretty good company since Bourque and Coffey are arguably two of the top five (or even top 3) fantasy defenders of all time.

Post edited by: lanky522, at: 2007/08/29 16:37

[angus]

I don\'t think I said fantasy-wise. Obviously Phaneuf is so valuable because of his point shot (he has one of the quickest releases in the league), and his ability to move the puck.

Bouwmeester is quite a bit better than Phaneuf as a hockey player right now, but Phanuef will probably have even or more fantasy value.

I do watch Phaneuf quite a bit and his overall play regressed a bit in the second season. He is still spotty defensively and makes bad reads at times. Bouwmeester on the other hand is already a top five blueliner in the league who gets little to no hype because of where he plays. He is dominant defensively, a phenomenal skater, and the offense is coming. If I was given the choice of ONE defenseman in the league to build my team around, I would take Bouwmeester (slightly over EJ, because of the proven factor).

[lanky522]

Angus wrote:

I don\'t think I said fantasy-wise. Obviously Phaneuf is so valuable because of his point shot (he has one of the quickest releases in the league), and his ability to move the puck.

no offense angus and please don\'t think that i\'m bashing you or anything, but isn\'t it kind of inherant that we were talking about fantasy value? I mean sure, jack has less of a chance at being a norris contender than eric johnson, but i don\'t think fantasy leagues count for that.

normally posts here revolve around \"who will be the best fantasy guy,\" not \"who will be the most valuable to his team guy.\"

I don\'t doubt that there\'s players out there (in addition to bouwmeester) that fantasy guys underrate as overall players because of their fantasy production, but it doesn\'t really matter who the better \"player\" will be in the grand scheme, as none of us (that I\'m aware of) will ever be an NHL General Manager making such decisions.