Yandle vs. Pietrangelo in this week's Cage Match - discuss here

[RizzeeDizzee]

Hi folks - I thought I'd start a thread to discuss my Cage Match column for this week, which happens to be an epic defenseman battle between Keith Yandle and Alex Pietrangelo. Here's a link to the column if you haven't read it: http://www.dobberhockey.com/hockey-h...x-pietrangelo/

What do you think about the column and the match? Sound off here!

[metaldude26]

I thought it was excellent work. I'm also a bit leery of Yandle in New York. They really need to find a coach who knows how to properly organize a power play. If I had more confidence there I'd have Yandle above 50 for this season.

[RizzeeDizzee]

I thought it was excellent work. I'm also a bit leery of Yandle in New York. They really need to find a coach who knows how to properly organize a power play. If I had more confidence there I'd have Yandle above 50 for this season.

Thanks Steve - that's high praise coming from you, the former Cage Match savant.

[metaldude26]

Thanks Steve - that's high praise coming from you, the former Cage Match savant.

Not to turn this into a stroke off but I maintain you've taken that column to new heights since the torch was passed.

[Crazy Joe Davola]

Fantastic Cage Match as usual! Always a great read. Now with that said, I'm a Pietrangelo owner (love the guy) but have been concerned with the role he's taken since Shattenkirk (who I also own) has taken over the top offensive minutes. In a league that scores points, PPP, SHG and +\- what would you think to me trying to swap Pietro for one of these guys:

Roman Josi
John Carlson
Brent Burns
Sami Vatanen
Dougie Hamilton
Shea Weber

I like the top two best, but what do you all think?
Thanks!

*Edit* added Brent Burns to the list of potential players

[Canucks_fan18]

Fantastic Cage Match as usual! Always a great read. Now with that said, I'm a Pietrangelo owner (love the guy) but have been concerned with the role he's taken since Shattenkirk (who I also own) has taken over the top offensive minutes. In a league that scores points, PPP, SHG and +\- what would you think to me trying to swap Pietro for one of these guys:

Roman Josi
John Carlson

Sami Vatanen
Dougie Hamilton
Shea Weber

I like the top two best, but what do you all think?
Thanks!

In order:

Shea Weber
John Carlson
Roman Josi

Dougie or Vatanen I wouldn't yet. I want to see another year out of these guys. Piets is going to still get this 40+ and will bounce back in +/- but I like him more at the lower 40's then a threat for 50 at this point.

[hipcheck]

I would rank them as follows:

Carlson
Josi
>
>
>
Hamilton

Carlson is now the number one guy and has little push from other teammates to take his minutes. I think we will see 4F 1 D PP out of WSH for the next several years. Niskanen was great on PP when Letang was out in PIT but he should stay PP2.

Josi is young and skilled and could take off as the "MAN" in NSH. It will not be this year, next year, or maybe even next several years. Webber is getting paid and the star of this team. Think how Chara has been used for the last few years. It has been a slow path to handing over top PP minutes to anybody (now Krug I guess). This will happen in NSH too but over a longer period as I think Webber will maintain longer than Chara (10 years younger).

Hamilton is great, maybe not elite, and the contract of Giordano would concern any Dougie owner who got warm and fuzzy with his trade to Calgary.

Webber is great in a win now mode but he will slow over the next 2-4 years. I only have Hamilton over Weber due to age.

Vatanen is someone I would pass on. That might just be me

Steve

[Crazy Joe Davola]

Fantastic insight fellas! I love being able to bounce ideas off such a knowledgable crowd. I've had Pietro since the inaugural keeper draft. In fact, he's my last remaining tie from that first draft. But since acquiring Shattenkirk I knew eventually I would have to move Pietrangelo for some diversity.

I can still see him putting up 50 points, but I love to negate risk and I think Carlson, Josi and Burns would offer the greatest chance to negate that risk.

This Cage Match was just the incentive I needed to get my butt in gear and start the negotiations! Thanks Rick Roos!

[Canucks_fan18]

I would rank them as follows:

Carlson
Josi
>
>
>
Hamilton

Carlson is now the number one guy and has little push from other teammates to take his minutes. I think we will see 4F 1 D PP out of WSH for the next several years. Niskanen was great on PP when Letang was out in PIT but he should stay PP2.

Josi is young and skilled and could take off as the "MAN" in NSH. It will not be this year, next year, or maybe even next several years. Webber is getting paid and the star of this team. Think how Chara has been used for the last few years. It has been a slow path to handing over top PP minutes to anybody (now Krug I guess). This will happen in NSH too but over a longer period as I think Webber will maintain longer than Chara (10 years younger).

Hamilton is great, maybe not elite, and the contract of Giordano would concern any Dougie owner who got warm and fuzzy with his trade to Calgary.

Webber is great in a win now mode but he will slow over the next 2-4 years. I only have Hamilton over Weber due to age.

Vatanen is someone I would pass on. That might just be me

Steve

Don't your comments contradict each other? You say you Josi being the man not this year or next or perhaps not for the next several but you have him over Weber? Also I agree maybe Weber slows down in the next 2-4 years but Defensemen have a longer shelf life then forwards, still give him the split call it three years. Thats a long time in fantasy hockey... In less you play your keeper leagues in decade time frames.

[RizzeeDizzee]

Fantastic insight fellas! I love being able to bounce ideas off such a knowledgable crowd. I've had Pietro since the inaugural keeper draft. In fact, he's my last remaining tie from that first draft. But since acquiring Shattenkirk I knew eventually I would have to move Pietrangelo for some diversity.

I can still see him putting up 50 points, but I love to negate risk and I think Carlson, Josi and Burns would offer the greatest chance to negate that risk.

This Cage Match was just the incentive I needed to get my butt in gear and start the negotiations! Thanks Rick Roos!

You're very welcome - this was a fun Cage Match to do, as I was surprised not only by what the data showed, but also by how clearly it showed it. I think Weber or Josi are now definite upgrades over Pietrangelo, while Carlson - who, if you put weight into IPP like I do, was INSANELY lucky last season - is probably a wash.

[Crazy Joe Davola]

It's funny, I still have his inate fear of Nashille players even though Laviolette is there now and they've showed they can open it up. Is there much concern wih Josi and Weber stealing opportunities from each other? And if so, do we like Josi to be the more offensive player. Ala the Shattenkirk to Weber's Pietrangelo?

[metaldude26]

It's funny, I still have his inate fear of Nashille players even though Laviolette is there now and they've showed they can open it up. Is there much concern wih Josi and Weber stealing opportunities from each other? And if so, do we like Josi to be the more offensive player. Ala the Shattenkirk to Weber's Pietrangelo?

Something that you may have noticed is that Weber doesn't do a whole lot of moving the puck out of his own end, either via rush or clearing pass, instead leaving a lot of that up to Josi, which helps explain some of the disparity between the two last season. They were both on par with regard to power play production but Josi produced double the primary assists at even strength and chipped in a few more on the PK. Weber's good at a lot of things but in terms of rushing and moving the puck Josi is much smoother. Wouldn't surprise me if he kept a leg up on Weber in the future because of this, though it should be noted that Suter, playing the similar role to Josi never really outperformed Weber but that may have more to do with Suter's apparent allergy to scoring goals than anything else.

[RizzeeDizzee]

Analogies can be tough, but the way Shattenkirk/Pietrangelo is shaping up makes me think of Sergei Zubov/Darryl Sydor in Dallas circa 1995-2000, where both did well but Zubov was far and away the offensive force. By comparison, Weber/Josi could shape up to be this decade's version of Lidstrom/Rafalski or even Pronger/Niedermayer, where both produced in the top echelon.

[hipcheck]

Don't your comments contradict each other? You say you Josi being the man not this year or next or perhaps not for the next several but you have him over Weber? Also I agree maybe Weber slows down in the next 2-4 years but Defensemen have a longer shelf life then forwards, still give him the split call it three years. Thats a long time in fantasy hockey... In less you play your keeper leagues in decade time frames.

I answered who I would rather own in a keeper league.

I am not sure I contradicted myself?

I said Josi could be the man in NSH. He has a franchise D man that he is going to share the ice with and would have to leap performance wise to take over being the TOP DOG. I ranked Josi higher than Weber because he has not reached his ceiling and is younger. Weber is the most logical choice for a win now mode. I would rather take very similar production this season and play for the future in every trade I make in a keeper league.