Better all around Defenceman

[Big Ev]

Sorry if I come across rude or arrogant, I just do not understand how underrated EK can be sometimes. He is very close to approaching Lidstrom territory.

[Axeman33]

I can say that because I am right. I don't need to argue this further. I didn't say he was truly elite defensively. The proof is in the god damn pudding of why he is without a doubt one of the best all-around d-men in the game. Choose to ignore it if you want.

I DO choose to ignore him as one of the better all-around Dmen. My list says that because I am not biased towards either player, or anyone on my list.

You are without a doubt one of the smarter hockey guys on here (especially on all things Senators) but when it comes to fantasy advice re: Senators, you are biased. Anyone who spends any amount of time on these forums knows this. The fact that you have a biased opinion blurs it and lessens the validity of it.

Again, just my opinion. Good talking this morning.

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Sorry if I come across rude or arrogant, I just do not understand how underrated EK can be sometimes. He is very close to approaching Lidstrom territory.

LOL! I am not taking this as rude at all, more of a quality back and forth with two differing opinions.

[Laendarian]

All around my top guys would include Doughty, Weber, Karlsson, Keith and Subban. Placing an order is super tough, but it would probably be a coin flip for me personally between Doughty and Karlsson. All 5 of these guys have the same thing in common though, they can all absolutely take over a game, and however you measure that between offence/defence or PP/PK doesn't matter to me, there may be a couple other D with this level of skill but its an exclusive group.

[Hoopo]

There's a reason he doesn't kill penalties. To me, that's an important part of anyone who's the best "all around" defenseman. If you are going to ask about all around Dmen, you need to look at who plays excellent in both ends of their rink and in all situations. Not only offensive Dmen but also who goes out and plays on the PK with success as well.

The reason is pretty obvious: he's already out there for close to half an hour every night.

But I do get your larger point, which is that this is an "all-around" list while Karlsson's game skews offensive. For all we know, Karlsson might be just great on the PK, but how would we know? Why are you going to put a guy like that on the PK when you can have him out at even strength or the PP for 30 minutes? Lots of guys can play the PK. A skill set like Karlsson's makes it a waste for Karlsson to be deployed in an all-around capacity.

Also, I feel like Giordano needs to get some love in threads like these. In my mind he can not be very far out of the top-5.

[VintageVibe]

I agree with Axeman.

He has made the most rational argument, IMO.

And to compare Karlsson to Lidstrom... LOL.

Read the title: Best All-Around Defenseman... what are you going to tell me next? Ovechkin is a better all-around player than Pavel Datsyuk?

Again, I reference the subject of this thread - "Better All-Around Defenseman". Not: who is the better player or who would you rather have.

If I'm going 1 on 1 here, I would rather have Hedman out there shutting down Karlsson than Karlsson out there shutting down Karlsson - he'd make himself look foolish in more ways than one. And therein lies the rub.

[Big Ev]

I agree with Axeman.

He has made the most rational argument, IMO.

And to compare Karlsson to Lidstrom... LOL.

Read the title: Best All-Around Defenseman... what are you going to tell me next? Ovechkin is a better all-around player than Pavel Datsyuk?

Again, I reference the subject of this thread - "Better All-Around Defenseman". Not: who is the better player or who would you rather have.

If I'm going 1 on 1 here, I would rather have Hedman out there shutting down Karlsson than Karlsson out there shutting down Karlsson - he'd make himself look foolish in more ways than one. And therein lies the rub.

thats one of the most illogical statements I've read in this thread. And that's saying something. I think my IQ just went down a couple of points by reading that. If you put Crosby out there to shut down Crosby, the offensive Crosby will win. What's your point?

we don't need a reading lesson. We've read the title. It's not "who is better defensively", in which case that is actually a debate between Karlsson and Hedman as well. Like I mentioned earlier Hedman was not good just a couple of seasons ago and was labelled by many as a bust. Funny how he loses that tag but not Karlsson. People love to hate the best, it's as simple as that.

Ask Swedes who have no bias whatsoever in this debate and they'll give you the right answer. They saw the best dominate at the Olympics and win two Norris trophies. nobody is comparing him to lidstrom right now. But he is on that track. You don't have to be a big physical shit down guy to be good defensively.

[rataylor22]

I think Drew Doughty is the best defenceman in the game right now. Period.

I think Victor Hedman is a better all-around defenceman than Erik Karlsson, but I don't think that makes Hedman a better defenceman than Karlsson. In the vein of the question, Hedman is a better all-around defenceman, but Karlsson's offense is so good that given the choice, I would take Karlsson over Hedman. A lot of people on this thread seem to have trouble distinguishing "better defenceman" and "better all-around defenceman". Yes they are different.

Lastly, comparing anyone in the current NHL to Lidstrom is absolutely laughable and embarrassing. Nobody is anywhere close to the level Lidstrom was at his prime. If you're thinking Karlsson is anywhere close, then you must only remember his AGE 40-42 seasons when he was slowing down but STILL WINNING NORRIS TROPHIES.

Karlsson couldn't hold Lidstrom's jock strap in Nick's prime years.

[VintageVibe]

thats one of the most illogical statements I've read in this thread. And that's saying something. I think my IQ just went down a couple of points by reading that. If you put Crosby out there to shut down Crosby, the offensive Crosby will win. What's your point?

we don't need a reading lesson. We've read the title. It's not "who is better defensively", in which case that is actually a debate between Karlsson and Hedman as well. Like I mentioned earlier Hedman was not good just a couple of seasons ago and was labelled by many as a bust. Funny how he loses that tag but not Karlsson. People love to hate the best, it's as simple as that.

Ask Swedes who have no bias whatsoever in this debate and they'll give you the right answer. They saw the best dominate at the Olympics and win two Norris trophies. nobody is comparing him to lidstrom right now. But he is on that track. You don't have to be a big physical shit down guy to be good defensively.

Ah CRAP! I really wrote "Erik Karlsson is the best defenseman in the history of the NHL" but it came out all funny! Silly autocorrect!

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I think Drew Doughty is the best defenceman in the game right now. Period.

I think Victor Hedman is a better all-around defenceman than Erik Karlsson, but I don't think that makes Hedman a better defenceman than Karlsson. In the vein of the question, Hedman is a better all-around defenceman, but Karlsson's offense is so good that given the choice, I would take Karlsson over Hedman. A lot of people on this thread seem to have trouble distinguishing "better defenceman" and "better all-around defenceman". Yes they are different.

Lastly, comparing anyone in the current NHL to Lidstrom is absolutely laughable and embarrassing. Nobody is anywhere close to the level Lidstrom was at his prime. If you're thinking Karlsson is anywhere close, then you must only remember his AGE 40-42 seasons when he was slowing down but STILL WINNING NORRIS TROPHIES.

Karlsson couldn't hold Lidstrom's jock strap in Nick's prime years.

My thoughts exactly.

[Big Ev]

I think Drew Doughty is the best defenceman in the game right now. Period.

I think Victor Hedman is a better all-around defenceman than Erik Karlsson, but I don't think that makes Hedman a better defenceman than Karlsson. In the vein of the question, Hedman is a better all-around defenceman, but Karlsson's offense is so good that given the choice, I would take Karlsson over Hedman. A lot of people on this thread seem to have trouble distinguishing "better defenceman" and "better all-around defenceman". Yes they are different.

Lastly, comparing anyone in the current NHL to Lidstrom is absolutely laughable and embarrassing. Nobody is anywhere close to the level Lidstrom was at his prime. If you're thinking Karlsson is anywhere close, then you must only remember his AGE 40-42 seasons when he was slowing down but STILL WINNING NORRIS TROPHIES.

Karlsson couldn't hold Lidstrom's jock strap in Nick's prime years.

Like i said I wasn't comparing him to lidstrom right now. Karlsson is not even in his prime and has already won two Norris trophies, would have been three if he didn't get hurt. I think he is absolutely on that trajectory. Players get better defensively as years go by and he already has better or equal offence than lidstrom.

As for doughty, agreed. Only guy I would compare to Karlsson St all.

[rataylor22]

Like i said I wasn't comparing him to lidstrom right now. Karlsson is not even in his prime and has already won two Norris trophies, would have been three if he didn't get hurt. I think he is absolutely on that trajectory. Players get better defensively as years go by and he already has better or equal offence than lidstrom.

As for doughty, agreed. Only guy I would compare to Karlsson St all.

We can agree to disagree on Karlsson's trajectory and his comparison to Lidstrom and I'm ok with that. Differing opinions are fine.

[Big Ev]

Ah CRAP! I really wrote "Erik Karlsson is the best defenseman in the history of the NHL" but it came out all funny! Silly autocorrect!

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My thoughts exactly.

As usual with Karlsson bashers, you have no real arguments.

Whatever, Karlsson is a better Defenceman and Ovechkin is a better player than Datsyuk. Throw "all around" out the window, at the end of the day best players are the best.

[bluezbreakaway]

I am actually shocked that there is so little talk about OEL not already closing in as a top 5 all around defenseman. The fact that he is the top player on his team at this point, might be due to his team being so mediocre(but i feel that even when their young guys turn the team around, he will be the best player on their team.) He is superior in his skating ability and defines grit, finesse when needed. His mobility is on par with Karlsson and his +/- is not a definition of his game. He takes control of a game and gives a horrible offense a possibility of winning on both sides. Maybe he doesn't cut the top 5 this year but as someone said in a previous post i have no doubt he will be named in the top 5 next year if a injury isn't present. I feel that he is a mold between what you get with doughty(physicality/leadership)/karlsson(fitness, mobility). Or maybe i am biased and am keeping him in a keep 4, 12 team league! You can decide that!

I pick karlsson

[Big Ev]

We can agree to disagree on Karlsson's trajectory and his comparison to Lidstrom and I'm ok with that. Differing opinions are fine.

Agree with you. I'm not comparing him right now, but in regards to Norris trophies I think it's not really an opinion. He has two in his six seasons. If he plays 20 seasons he will probably win five or six. he would need cups to be compared to Lidstrom (rightly or wrongly)

[rataylor22]

Agree with you. I'm not comparing him right now, but in regards to Norris trophies I think it's not really an opinion. He has two in his six seasons. If he plays 20 seasons he will probably win five or six. he would need cups to be compared to Lidstrom (rightly or wrongly)

and a Conn Smythe haha

[Fighting_Emu]

I am actually shocked that there is so little talk about OEL not already closing in as a top 5 all around defenseman. The fact that he is the top player on his team at this point, might be due to his team being so mediocre(but i feel that even when their young guys turn the team around, he will be the best player on their team.) He is superior in his skating ability and defines grit, finesse when needed. His mobility is on par with Karlsson and his +/- is not a definition of his game. He takes control of a game and gives a horrible offense a possibility of winning on both sides. Maybe he doesn't cut the top 5 this year but as someone said in a previous post i have no doubt he will be named in the top 5 next year if a injury isn't present. I feel that he is a mold between what you get with doughty(physicality/leadership)/karlsson(fitness, mobility). Or maybe i am biased and am keeping him in a keep 4, 12 team league! You can decide that!

I pick karlsson

Funny- I was just thinking this today- a bad market is masking one of the best talents in our generation. He is sooooo goddamn good- and this thread is evidence of how little recognition he gets. Im not even a fntasy owner- wish I was though...