New Cap league - please help with the weird format

[Samfolds]

Hi guys,

A friend has invited me to join a brand new points-only cap league that will start this fall. We should be 16 teams in total.

He plans to use actual salaries (not cap hit), but the weirdest part is that the initial draft will be of an actual NHL team and you will have all players of that team who have played at least 20 games (the prospect draft will occur later and will include all players with less than 20 games played in the NHL). Also of note, we will only be drafting one team and all players from teams not drafted in 2015 will only be draftable in 2016 (season 2016-2017). The order of the prospect draft will be inverse of the team draft.

I have never been in a cap league before and I'm craving to enter one. This is a nice opportunity, but I'm unsure of the format. What do you guys think? Will first teams drafted have too much of an advantage compared to last ones?

Finally, I would appreciate some input on the teams that you would target in this kind of draft (maybe provide a top 10-15 list of teams with a general idea of why they are good, taking into account most notable players and their cap hits).

I will rep as much as I can as I know this is not an easy question to answer.

Thanks!!

[tobias]

In a points only set up, I would target the highest scoring teams from last year. Tampa Bay would be killer, with Stamkos, Palat, Kucherov, and Johnson all still on very cost efficient contracts. When the end of the season rolls around, and Stamkos and Kucherov get their raises, there are a lot of players who you could cut ties with to save on salary and spend elsewhere on more scoring (Carle, Garrison, Stralman, Callahan, Boyle all come to mind) while still maintaining that explosive offensive core. If goalies factor in for points (wins, shutouts), then having Bishop now and Vasilevskiy in the future is dynamite as well!

The Dallas Stars were second in league scoring last year, and they won't have any important new contracts (relative to your fantasy situation) to deal with next year, outside of Nichuskin, so there is a core that gives you a couple of years to build around and figure out how to move forward with. They have Niemi and Lehtonen, so if they can decide on a definitive starter, there is instant cap savings for you when the other gets dumped.

I could keep on going down the list here, but it's pretty obvious to me that you want the highest scoring teams, period. All teams have good real life players who aren't good fantasy players, but are making lots of money. Dropping those guys allows you to keep an offensive core together and continue to do well in your league.

Oh, and don't forget about the Penguins. They finished 19th in G/GP last year, but they are definitely a top team that I would want.

[Pengwin7]

Things to think about for this type of league:

1. Start simple. Look at teams last year by Goals Scored. Obviously, this is a good starting point.
2. Look at the team and consider where the "actual salaries" are headed. Are a LOT of guys due for new contracts soon... BIG pay raises?
3. Think about the future of those players/that team. Will they be good for the coming years?
4. Collect HIGH-END player teams (i.e. PIT) rather than solid NHL teams (i.e. ANA/MIN). Fantasy pools are almost always about collecting HIGH-END talent and supplementing it with sharp trades & waiver wire adds.
5. Do you get AHL/minors players? This can be a consideration with teams like Anaheim who have guys like John Gibson, a possible #1 goalie, in their AHL team.

Since you have 16 teams, I'll list my top 20 teams:

1. Pittsburgh (221 goals, NHL-19th). WHY? They have five top end players signed to long contracts: Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, Fleury + Hornqvist is a good own. That's 6 dynamic high-end players.
2. Tampa Bay (262 goals, NHL-1st). WHY? They'd be my #1 except most of these guys will be due for HUGE pay increases: Stamkos, T.Johnson, Kucherov, Palat, Hedman + Bishop.
...
...
(drop-off)
...
3. Dallas (261 goals, NHL-2nd). WHY? Besides getting Seguin, Benn, Sharp, Spezza, AND Klingberg... you also get possibly two #1 goalies: Niemi, Lehtonen - and one may get traded eventually!
4. St.Louis (248 goals, NHL-5th). WHY? They have lots of very good forwards, great D, and you get both goalies - with one likely to pan out be the #1 eventually.
5. Anaheim (236 goals, NHL-10th). WHY? Both Getzlaf & Perry have nice contracts + Kesler, a bunch of good young defensemen + both of F.Andersen and Gibson.
6. Chicago (229 goals, NHL-16th). WHY? Again, all about HIGH-END talent: Toews, P.Kane, Hossa, Keith + Crawford. A drawback: Teuvo Teravainen not included in your player group. And Toews/P.Kane contracts are enormous.
7. NY Rangers (252 goals, NHL-4th). WHY? Just a very balanced team with higher D-firepower now with Yandle. Love having Lundqvist who should be back to a WIN-horse with Talbot gone.
...
(drop-off, IMO)
...
8. Detroit (235 goals, NHL-12th). WHY? Well, you get the usual DET starts + Mike Green. Pretty slick. Also, Petr Mrazek/Howard have some doubt in who will be the #1... but Mrazek has played 40 NHL games, so he's yours!
9. Edmonton (198 goals, NHL-26th). WHY? This may seem early, but even without McDavid the points will trickle down to Hall, Eberle, Yakupov & crew. Sekera is a nice new add + Schultz + possibly Talbot is the guy. And perhaps you can swing some great dealing with soon-to-be McDavid owner.
10. Washington (242 goals, NHL-7th). WHY? Obviously Ovechkin & Backstrom. John Carlson & Niskanen are good D and Holtby now a long-term CAP. A bit of a downgrade with Mike Green not part of your group of scorers.
11. Colorado (219 goals, NHL-21st). WHY? For the future, you get MacKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog.
...
(drop-off, IMO)
...
12. NY Islanders (252 goals, NHL-3rd). I like the Isles as a team and obviously Tavares is a rock in fantasy, but I really don't know if their D can repeat the points and Halak is aging.
13. Florida (206 goals, NHL-25th). Yes, I'm investing in the players as a future here. Guys like Barkov, Bjug, Hubs, Ekblad have a lot of room for growth and Lu still young enough.
14. Ottawa (238 goals, NHL-9th). Nice to have Karlsson and the Anderson/Hammond duo... but the goal-scorers just are not high-end enough.
15. Columbus (236 goals, NHL-11th). Just a very solid group + a young goalie... not much on D - but that doesn't usually win fantasy pools.
16. Minnesota (231 goals, NHL-14th). Great depth in players and Dubnyk should hold the fort down. By name value, they should be higher, but MIN plays a low-scoring system.
17. Montreal (221 goals, NHL-18th). Good club, you get Price & Subban - but the scoring forwards leave a lot to be desired.
18. Nashville (232 goals, NHL-13th). Great top line of players, great D + Rinne for wins.
19. San Jose (228 goals, NHL-17th). Some super good forwards, though aging. I'm not big on what you get in net.
20. Calgary (241 goals, NHL-8th). Not a lot of high end forwards, but mercy you get some good defensemen and possibly two NHL #1 goalies in Hiller/Ramo.
21. Los Angeles (220 goals, NHL-20th). Outside of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick - not a lot I like in youth on this team... perhaps Toffoli.
22. Winnipeg (230 goals, NHL-15th). Good solid team, but the goaltending situ is poor.
...
(drop-off)
...
Not in my consideration: VAN (too old... no idea how they finished 6th in NHL scoring), PHI (outside G/Voracek, bleach), BOS (too old), CAR (yuck), NJ (yuck), ARI (yuck), BUF (dont' get Eichel), TOR

[tobias]

What I like about the Penguins, too, is that they have a couple very large salaries (e.g., Letang, Malkin) which are injury prone, but hold tremendous name value (along with tremendous stats when healthy). Together, they represent about $17 million where, if you traded them, you could add some wonderful players are on decent contracts to further solidify your depth. You'd still be left with Crosby, Kessel, Hornqvist, Perron, Pouliot, Maata, etc.

[jmouland]

Things to think about for this type of league:

1. Start simple. Look at teams last year by Goals Scored. Obviously, this is a good starting point.
2. Look at the team and consider where the "actual salaries" are headed. Are a LOT of guys due for new contracts soon... BIG pay raises?
3. Think about the future of those players/that team. Will they be good for the coming years?
4. Collect HIGH-END player teams (i.e. PIT) rather than solid NHL teams (i.e. ANA/MIN). Fantasy pools are almost always about collecting HIGH-END talent and supplementing it with sharp trades & waiver wire adds.
5. Do you get AHL/minors players? This can be a consideration with teams like Anaheim who have guys like John Gibson, a possible #1 goalie, in their AHL team.

Since you have 16 teams, I'll list my top 20 teams:

1. Pittsburgh (221 goals, NHL-19th). WHY? They have five top end players signed to long contracts: Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, Fleury + Hornqvist is a good own. That's 6 dynamic high-end players.
2. Tampa Bay (262 goals, NHL-1st). WHY? They'd be my #1 except most of these guys will be due for HUGE pay increases: Stamkos, T.Johnson, Kucherov, Palat, Hedman + Bishop.
...
...
(drop-off)
...
3. Dallas (261 goals, NHL-2nd). WHY? Besides getting Seguin, Benn, Sharp, Spezza, AND Klingberg... you also get possibly two #1 goalies: Niemi, Lehtonen - and one may get traded eventually!
4. St.Louis (248 goals, NHL-5th). WHY? They have lots of very good forwards, great D, and you get both goalies - with one likely to pan out be the #1 eventually.
5. Anaheim (236 goals, NHL-10th). WHY? Both Getzlaf & Perry have nice contracts + Kesler, a bunch of good young defensemen + both of F.Andersen and Gibson.
6. Chicago (229 goals, NHL-16th). WHY? Again, all about HIGH-END talent: Toews, P.Kane, Hossa, Keith + Crawford. A drawback: Teuvo Teravainen not included in your player group. And Toews/P.Kane contracts are enormous.
7. NY Rangers (252 goals, NHL-4th). WHY? Just a very balanced team with higher D-firepower now with Yandle. Love having Lundqvist who should be back to a WIN-horse with Talbot gone.
...
(drop-off, IMO)
...
8. Detroit (235 goals, NHL-12th). WHY? Well, you get the usual DET starts + Mike Green. Pretty slick. Also, Petr Mrazek/Howard have some doubt in who will be the #1... but Mrazek has played 40 NHL games, so he's yours!
9. Edmonton (198 goals, NHL-26th). WHY? This may seem early, but even without McDavid the points will trickle down to Hall, Eberle, Yakupov & crew. Sekera is a nice new add + Schultz + possibly Talbot is the guy. And perhaps you can swing some great dealing with soon-to-be McDavid owner.
10. Washington (242 goals, NHL-7th). WHY? Obviously Ovechkin & Backstrom. John Carlson & Niskanen are good D and Holtby now a long-term CAP. A bit of a downgrade with Mike Green not part of your group of scorers.
11. Colorado (219 goals, NHL-21st). WHY? For the future, you get MacKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog.
...
(drop-off, IMO)
...
12. NY Islanders (252 goals, NHL-3rd). I like the Isles as a team and obviously Tavares is a rock in fantasy, but I really don't know if their D can repeat the points and Halak is aging.
13. Florida (206 goals, NHL-25th). Yes, I'm investing in the players as a future here. Guys like Barkov, Bjug, Hubs, Ekblad have a lot of room for growth and Lu still young enough.
14. Ottawa (238 goals, NHL-9th). Nice to have Karlsson and the Anderson/Hammond duo... but the goal-scorers just are not high-end enough.
15. Columbus (236 goals, NHL-11th). Just a very solid group + a young goalie... not much on D - but that doesn't usually win fantasy pools.
16. Minnesota (231 goals, NHL-14th). Great depth in players and Dubnyk should hold the fort down. By name value, they should be higher, but MIN plays a low-scoring system.
17. Montreal (221 goals, NHL-18th). Good club, you get Price & Subban - but the scoring forwards leave a lot to be desired.
18. Nashville (232 goals, NHL-13th). Great top line of players, great D + Rinne for wins.
19. San Jose (228 goals, NHL-17th). Some super good forwards, though aging. I'm not big on what you get in net.
20. Calgary (241 goals, NHL-8th). Not a lot of high end forwards, but mercy you get some good defensemen and possibly two NHL #1 goalies in Hiller/Ramo.
21. Los Angeles (220 goals, NHL-20th). Outside of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick - not a lot I like in youth on this team... perhaps Toffoli.
22. Winnipeg (230 goals, NHL-15th). Good solid team, but the goaltending situ is poor.
...
(drop-off)
...
Not in my consideration: VAN (too old... no idea how they finished 6th in NHL scoring), PHI (outside G/Voracek, bleach), BOS (too old), CAR (yuck), NJ (yuck), ARI (yuck), BUF (dont' get Eichel), TOR

This is fantastic. I'd probably bump CLB up to be roughly even with Colorado and maybe move Calgary up to the top of the tier they currently reside in. I also don't hate Buffalo with O'Reilly, Kane, Ristolainen, Ennis, Lehner...still not a preferred team though.

[Samfolds]

Tobias, thanks for taking the first crack at it! Targeting high scoring team makes perfect sense. AND I like your avatar .

Pengwin, you're the man ! Thanks so much for explaining your thoughts in so much details. It must have taken quite some time and I appreciate it very much. It is also a good base for others to chime in, if they wish.

Things to think about for this type of league:

1. Start simple. Look at teams last year by Goals Scored. Obviously, this is a good starting point.
2. Look at the team and consider where the "actual salaries" are headed. Are a LOT of guys due for new contracts soon... BIG pay raises?
3. Think about the future of those players/that team. Will they be good for the coming years?
4. Collect HIGH-END player teams (i.e. PIT) rather than solid NHL teams (i.e. ANA/MIN). Fantasy pools are almost always about collecting HIGH-END talent and supplementing it with sharp trades & waiver wire adds.
5. Do you get AHL/minors players? This can be a consideration with teams like Anaheim who have guys like John Gibson, a possible #1 goalie, in their AHL team.

Since you have 16 teams, I'll list my top 20 teams:

1. Pittsburgh (221 goals, NHL-19th). WHY? They have five top end players signed to long contracts: Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, Fleury + Hornqvist is a good own. That's 6 dynamic high-end players.
2. Tampa Bay (262 goals, NHL-1st). WHY? They'd be my #1 except most of these guys will be due for HUGE pay increases: Stamkos, T.Johnson, Kucherov, Palat, Hedman + Bishop.
...
...
(drop-off)
...
3. Dallas (261 goals, NHL-2nd). WHY? Besides getting Seguin, Benn, Sharp, Spezza, AND Klingberg... you also get possibly two #1 goalies: Niemi, Lehtonen - and one may get traded eventually!
4. St.Louis (248 goals, NHL-5th). WHY? They have lots of very good forwards, great D, and you get both goalies - with one likely to pan out be the #1 eventually.
5. Anaheim (236 goals, NHL-10th). WHY? Both Getzlaf & Perry have nice contracts + Kesler, a bunch of good young defensemen + both of F.Andersen and Gibson.
6. Chicago (229 goals, NHL-16th). WHY? Again, all about HIGH-END talent: Toews, P.Kane, Hossa, Keith + Crawford. A drawback: Teuvo Teravainen not included in your player group. And Toews/P.Kane contracts are enormous.
7. NY Rangers (252 goals, NHL-4th). WHY? Just a very balanced team with higher D-firepower now with Yandle. Love having Lundqvist who should be back to a WIN-horse with Talbot gone.
...
(drop-off, IMO)
...
8. Detroit (235 goals, NHL-12th). WHY? Well, you get the usual DET starts + Mike Green. Pretty slick. Also, Petr Mrazek/Howard have some doubt in who will be the #1... but Mrazek has played 40 NHL games, so he's yours!
9. Edmonton (198 goals, NHL-26th). WHY? This may seem early, but even without McDavid the points will trickle down to Hall, Eberle, Yakupov & crew. Sekera is a nice new add + Schultz + possibly Talbot is the guy. And perhaps you can swing some great dealing with soon-to-be McDavid owner.
10. Washington (242 goals, NHL-7th). WHY? Obviously Ovechkin & Backstrom. John Carlson & Niskanen are good D and Holtby now a long-term CAP. A bit of a downgrade with Mike Green not part of your group of scorers.
11. Colorado (219 goals, NHL-21st). WHY? For the future, you get MacKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog.
...
(drop-off, IMO)
...
12. NY Islanders (252 goals, NHL-3rd). I like the Isles as a team and obviously Tavares is a rock in fantasy, but I really don't know if their D can repeat the points and Halak is aging.
13. Florida (206 goals, NHL-25th). Yes, I'm investing in the players as a future here. Guys like Barkov, Bjug, Hubs, Ekblad have a lot of room for growth and Lu still young enough.
14. Ottawa (238 goals, NHL-9th). Nice to have Karlsson and the Anderson/Hammond duo... but the goal-scorers just are not high-end enough.
15. Columbus (236 goals, NHL-11th). Just a very solid group + a young goalie... not much on D - but that doesn't usually win fantasy pools.
16. Minnesota (231 goals, NHL-14th). Great depth in players and Dubnyk should hold the fort down. By name value, they should be higher, but MIN plays a low-scoring system.
17. Montreal (221 goals, NHL-18th). Good club, you get Price & Subban - but the scoring forwards leave a lot to be desired.
18. Nashville (232 goals, NHL-13th). Great top line of players, great D + Rinne for wins.
19. San Jose (228 goals, NHL-17th). Some super good forwards, though aging. I'm not big on what you get in net.
20. Calgary (241 goals, NHL-8th). Not a lot of high end forwards, but mercy you get some good defensemen and possibly two NHL #1 goalies in Hiller/Ramo.
21. Los Angeles (220 goals, NHL-20th). Outside of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick - not a lot I like in youth on this team... perhaps Toffoli.
22. Winnipeg (230 goals, NHL-15th). Good solid team, but the goaltending situ is poor.
...
(drop-off)
...
Not in my consideration: VAN (too old... no idea how they finished 6th in NHL scoring), PHI (outside G/Voracek, bleach), BOS (too old), CAR (yuck), NJ (yuck), ARI (yuck), BUF (dont' get Eichel), TOR

[Samfolds]

Draft is tomorrow. Some other information on the league : It is a count best X players as follow : 12F / 6D / 2G. We can have unlimited number of players as long as we're below NHL cap. There is a good chance that D-men will be scored 2 pt/goal 1 pt/assist (all other skaters would be 1 pt/pt). That should boost some teams a little (like CGY and NSH). Goalies get 2 pts for a win and 3 extra points per SO.

I have taken into consideration what you guys said above and refined my research to come up with the following list. I used Dobber's 2015-2016 projections for the top 8 F / top 4D / top 2G of each team to get a sense of the strengths, weaknesses and depth of each team and made some personal adjustments. I'd love to get some final thoughts before the draft. Thanks!

---- 1st tier - Elite teams
1. PIT
2. TB

---- 2nd tier - Solid teams
3. DAL - I could even consider them in the above tier with the likes of Benn, Seguin, Klingberg and two #1 goalies in Lethonen and Niemi
4. STL - Well balanced, 2 good goalies.
5. ANA - ... Nothing much to say other than they are balanced I do get Andersen and Gibson (plus Khudobin and Hackett, if that's worth anything in a 16 teamer with 2 Gs).
6. NIY - This is one major difference with Pengwin's ranking... This group of forwards will be awesome for years to come (according to Dobber's projection, only PIT and TB will have a better top 8 forward group). True that the defense should not be able to repeat, but Leddy and Boychuk should still be decent. Halak is still just 30. The only major downside is that if (when) Halak gets hurt, he we will hurt my fantasy team badly...
7. NYR - Well balanced: A handful of young emerging forwards and good D duo and probably a top 5 goalie (+ Raanta, which is not too shaby).
8. WSH - Less balanced than some of the teams above, but the core is still in their prime (Ovy, Backstrom, Oshie) and I do get Kuznetsov and Burakovsky. The defense corp will not be elite with only Carlsson and Niskanen as the offensive weapons, but getting Holtby long term at a decent salary is exciting.

---- 3rd tier - Risky teams
9. CHI - The Kane investigation is not great as he's the best player on this team for this format (points only)... Still worth the risk with the other forwards (TT is included as he's played more than 20 games). Keith, Seabrook and to some extent Dailey will be good D-men and Crawford will get his fair share of wins. The major problem is that I don't get Darling as he's played only 14 games in the NHL, but I could target him in the prospect draft.
10. EDM - This is a leap of faith that this McDavid kid will make this team able to score a lot more goals than they have in the past (I won't get him with the team though). The forward group is young and exciting and as Pengwin said, I could probably trade a few of them to balance my team (D and possibly G). I get Talbot and Scrivens, so one of them should emerge as a starter.

---- 4th tier - Good teams
11. WPG - Boy, am I surprised to rank them here... They are deeper than I first realised at both Forwards (Wheeler, Little, Ladd, Scheifele, Stafford, Perreault) and Defense (Big Buf, Myers, Trouba, Enstrom). With such a deep fantasy roster (12 F, 6D), I think it's good to have those kind of "great, but not elite" players for relatively cheap. I agree that the goalie situation is bad, but if Pavelec fails again, I am gambling that Hutchinson will step up and be somewhat decent. I could also concentrate on getting 1-2 goalies in the prospect draft for the future.
12. COL - Great group of elite forwards in Mac, Duchesne and Landeskog (+Soderberg and some years of Iginla). Barrie and Johnson at D is good. Varlamov should settle as the #1 for a young and upcoming team. The depth is not great though...
13. CGY - Surprised myself to rank them so high... 2 words : Def & Goalie. With NSH, this is the most deep Def crew in the league. Getting 2 #1 goalies in Ramo and Hiller is great. The core of that offense, although not elite, is still young and emerging (Gaudreau, Monahan, Frolik and to some extent Hudler). According to my quick calculations (explained above), they'd be the 9th team ranked for this year alone.
14. NSH - Again, quite high on the list, but I'll use the 2 same words : Def & Goalie. With CGY, this is the most deep Def crew in the league (Weber, Josi, Ellis, Seth Jones + I get Cody Franson). Rinne should be a top 5 (3?) goalie for the next 3-5 years. Offense is pretty weak, which is a major downside... Plus, they are not that young... According to my quick calculations (explained above), they'd be the 6th team ranked for this year alone with 2 pt/goals for D-men). It just feels weird to pick
15. OTT - Karlsson is so good, and although not high-end, the group of forwards is young... Getting the goalie duo is a nice to have I guess...
16. DET - The aging group of elite players (Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall) are scaring me a bit, but Nyquist, Tatar and Green are nothing to sneeze at. Plus, I do get both Howard and Mrazek.

---- 5th tier - Other considerations (could bump em up)
17. FLA - As Pengwin mentioned, this is an up and coming team, and given the teams that are left, I would bank on the upside at this point. Then again, there are not that many scoring players... Plus, the goalie situation is not good looking long term...
18. CLB - Good forward group, but no defense whatsoever... Bob is young and should be good for multiple years if healthy.


Please help me! Rep incoming.

[Vancityguy]

I would rank TB 1st and move Pitt down the list in a cap format like this using actual salary, remember that guys like sid are 12 mil in this format, Malkin 9.5, Kessel 10 mill, Letang 7.25 etc. Whereas with TB you have very cap friendly contracts with massive production, Stamkos only 5.5 mil?! TJ(2 years left) 3.2 mil, Palat 3.2 mil, Drouin 832k(2 years left), Kucherov 700k, etc.

Yes several of these will increase significantly next year or the year after but in my mind it gives you a massive competitive advantage in the league to start and tons of room to draft/trade for a winner.

Use http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/ to see team salaries and click on the player since you use actual salary and not cap hit which makes a huge difference.

I also really dislike the injury history on Pitts.

[Samfolds]

Thanks for the input Vancity. The draft is in a few hours... For those who would like a TL;DR version of my post (I'd really like some feedback on the points below):

1) I see NYI way higher than Pengwin based on Dobber's projections. Do you guys see them more in the 12 range or 6 range?
2) I see CHI as bad candidate according to Dobber's projections (not even in the top 20). I've bumped them up because of star power, but with the Kane investigation, I'm wondering if I should consider them at all.
3) I see WPG as a deep team with only problem being G. Am I crazy to consider them in the top 12 (Pengwin as them 22)?

Thanks!

[Magicstew]

Interesting to see which team you pick. I agree with you on NYI being a good candidate team as well as Wpg. They have both a solid core of players for you type of league.

[Samfolds]

Thanks all for your help. I was able to snag STL at #9.

I'll probably be starting some more threads since I'm very new to cap leagues.