Barry Bonds/Michael Rasmussen

[hockeylifer]

Barry Bonds: Chasing Hank Aaron\'s Homerun record.

Michael Rusmussen: Disgraced, suspended Tour du France competitor, withdrawn by his team for SUSPECTED doping.

Should Bonds be any different than Rasmussen? A little late for baseball to probably have that consideration but is there a difference?

Do you care?

I sure as hell am not cheering for Bonds.

[repenttokyo]

who cares if players use steroids. players today have personal trainers, doctors, and amazing training facilities, not to mention surgical procedures that radically extend their careers in case of injury. All of these things drastically differentiate them from the players of yesteryear. Steroids is only a small component in this universe of change.

[reeveta]

Good point about the science of sports. Steroids are just a small part of it.

I was just thinking what a good week it is to be a hockey fan. Here are a few reasons:
1) No juiced up a$$hole is about to break Gretzky’s record.
2) No ref is been associated with game fixing (because let’s face it, there is not much betting on hockey).
3) No one in the NHL has been arrested for dog fighting
4) Hockey is not soccer.

The worst thing that has happened recently is the Staals got arrested for drinking too much. They didn’t even try to drive! This one has many of us remember that time, with too much booze, the cops . . . yeah – you know what I am talking about.

Sure hockey has its own problems but it is nice for one week that we come away smelling like roses.

[big_dl]

What\'s wrong with Barry Bonds?

1. There\'s nothing more than circumstantial evidence surrounding his use of steroids. What happened to the concept of innocent until proven guilty? It\'s entirely conceivable that a great athlete decided late in his career when he was losing a step to bulk up and become bigger and more of a home run hitter. Bonds has always has power, he just always had speed as well and sacrificed bulk for speed.

2. Being strong doesnt mean shit. Assuming Bonds took steroids he still possessed amazing talent and skill that enabled to hit homeruns. It\'s not like this was a guy who couldnt hit homers before. If strength was the only thing that made one one a good baseball or homerun hitter than one would think that body builders would necessarily be the best hitters or at least best homer run hitters in baseball.

3. Baseball is all about cheating. The spit ball, stealing signals, vaseline, just to name a few things. What\'s so wrong about steroids, especially in the context of baseball? How can you get upset about steroids when players take speed in order to play a full season?

Who gives a rat\'s ass about cycling? no one\'s cared since Armstrong retired.

But back to the argument about steroids. If athletes want to steroids they should be able to. The whole \"roid rage\" thing is a joke, and if you bring up Chris Benoit then you must also explain how his \"roid rage\" lasted 3 days without him coming down and feeling remorse. If athletes want to sacrifice a bit of their life after sports for greater success while playing sports then that should be their choice. On the other hand, we could regulate everything and take away all choice from everybody, that sounds equally as appetizing. Who wants freedom of choice anyways, right?

[Dobber]

Steriods should be legal - it\'s nature\'s way of weeding out the weak. Dumb enough to take steroids and shorten life, dumb enough to die early. Good riddance.

Bonds is on steroids because everyone in pro sports is. Also, he is a better home run hitter now than he was in his prime. Steroids is prevalent in all sports, including hockey. Don\'t eat what the spin doctors feed you. \"Perfect in tests\"? Yeah right - try testing for ALL steroids and have testing done by a third party...then tell me if 100% of the players \"passed\".

Sports are still a joke in this department. Either call a spade a spade and make everything legal, or clean it up properly. Myself, I don\'t care which they do. I\'ll watch an all-steroid league or a steroid-free league! Just don\'t bullshit me with telling it\'s one thing and really it\'s another.

PS - dl...if steroids gave Bonds the strength to add another 15 feet whenever he makes contact, he just went from hitting 40 home runs to 60 home runs right there.


There\'s my rant B)

[hockeylifer]

Hello Big_DL \'et al\'

The point I was making was, \"Being as Rasmussen was treated in the manner that he was, did Bonds warrant similar considerations for discipline or treatment?\" Albeit late to have that consideration.

Did you care?

As to Bonds chasing the Homerun record, my position is I don\'t care and I am not cheering for Bonds. I don\'t watch it. I am not a baseball fan. At the same time I have respect for Aaron\'s achievement but I have difficulty with accepting Bond\'s achievement (?) on the same playing field.

As for cycling, I don\'t care either. I just thought it might generate some interesting conversation.

Negative Karma? Whatever. Just thought it might be iteresting.

[big_dl]

Dobber: my point was it wasnt the steroids alone that made the man able to hit homers in the first place, he clearly could, his stats prove as much. Whether or not it is likely that all athletes are taking steroids is not the point, the point is that it has been proven that Bonds is taking steroids, and it\'s entirely possible that, as I stated previously, he decided to bulk up when he realized he was losing a step. I cant prove this but if he started bulking up a couple years before no one would\'ve noticed until his numbers were 20 homers higher.

Hockeylifer: I didnt ding you with negative karma. Havent done it yet, and am certainly not going to start for an opinion, that while I disagree was articulated decently and made sense. If anyone deserves negative karma here it\'s me, I treated half of your post as if it didnt matter, and while cycling doesnt matter that\'s not the way it should be done. You\'re right the treatment of Rasmussen is a joke. But it really isnt any different than whats happened to Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro. The only players to have been involved in the steroids issue and not have a black mark on their record are Schilling and Giambi, and Giambi\'s the only one still playing who admitted to taking roids. Giambi\'s still seemingly loved by the press and America as a whole. Wonder why? Could the whole hating of Bonds be related to the relationship he has with the media and not actually to his taking steroids? Imagine the media taking out a vendetta on a player by persecuting him. Nah, that couldnt happen.

I agree with Dobber, and I believe I said it earlier, let the athletes do whatever the hell they want. This is certainly not an issue for government.

[doulos]

I watch the Tour de France every single year. Even WITH the doping stuff going on in the sport this was still one of the best Tours I have ever seen, far better then any of the Lance years that I watched. You\'re missing out by not watching it.

[hockeylifer]

Hello Big DL \'et al\'

DL this is not a shot at you. \'Let the athlete\'s do whatever they want to do\'.

I understand where you coming from as it relates to steroid use. If you want to shorten your life and kill yourself, then so be it.

I am going to bring up the issue of Michael Vick. What a \'piece of shit\'.
What the hell is that guy thinking? How can you become so removed from human emotion because of money? I hope his career is at an end. I just do not understand how people become so emotionally detached.

I am happy to see that Nike, Upper Deck, etc. have cut him loose. I hope the Falcons and the NFL are next.

You already know my thoughts of him. He is a \'piece of shit\'.

[big_dl]

Listen I dont like what Vick did but why is he treated than say Kobe Bryant. I mean, I love dogs and all, hell I\'ve had 2, but isnt sexual assault/rape whatever it was worse than dog fighting. Why is it that Kobe\'s still extremely popular but Vick\'s all of a sudden a social pariah. I want to make it clear that I am in now way defending Vick, but lets shoot for a little perspective here, not just in the forum but in society. How is it that the Staal brothers get busted for partying too hard and its a big story, front page news? Now it hasnt been as big as the Vick thing but partying too hard, come on now. As sick as I am of athletes and celebrities getting away with murder, literal or otherwise, some perspective is necessary. Why is it that the world freaks to almost a similar level when an 18yr old sports gets caught under-age drinking, something almost every one did, and then they react in a similar manner to spousal abuse? If the dog fighting thing is true Vick\'s a piece of shit but when Iverson skips another practice it\'ll be just as big in the news. Sorry, I just have a major beef with the news media in general. Actually you gotta love that partying too hard occasionally is generally the biggest screw up that hockey players make, unless you\'re Rick Tocchet.

[repenttokyo]

hockeylifer wrote:

Hello Big DL \'et al\'

DL this is not a shot at you. \'Let the athlete\'s do whatever they want to do\'.

I understand where you coming from as it relates to steroid use. If you want to shorten your life and kill yourself, then so be it.

I am going to bring up the issue of Michael Vick. What a \'piece of shit\'.
What the hell is that guy thinking? How can you become so removed from human emotion because of money? I hope his career is at an end. I just do not understand how people become so emotionally detached.

I am happy to see that Nike, Upper Deck, etc. have cut him loose. I hope the Falcons and the NFL are next.

You already know my thoughts of him. He is a \'piece of shit\'.

whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty????????????

[jaymur]

I would rather have the fuzz after me than the animal rights activistshmy:

[big_dl]

Not to re-hash the beaten down but with the revile that Bonds breaking Aaron\'s record was generally met with I thought I\'d bring this to light. Seelig, the 2nd most useless commish in professional sports (after Betteman), announced that Giambi wont be punished for using steroids and admitting to it. My beef isnt that Giambi\'s not going to be punished he shouldnt be, but how does this go hand in hand with Seelig\'s almost complete and total avoidance of recognizing Bonds\' accomplishment. Apparently you cant spell HYPOCRISY without SEELIG. Just cause he\'s good friends with Aaron and the media has made Bonds the most reviled athlete in pro sports, doesnt make Seeligs actions right. Seelig flip flops on steroids more than senate democrats on the Iraq War (excuse Obama - didnt vote and Lieberman - still for it).

I never had respect for Seelig but he now ranks for me at the bottom with Craig Coxes\' skating ability and Anna Kournikova\'s tennis abilities.

[hockeylifer]

Hello DL!

I respect your opinion. I found it most interesting that Giambi gets kudos because he admitted that he did wrong(?). Well maybe, kinda? Selig is a joke, so is baseball. How can you have it both ways? It is a problem? What\'s the problem? There is no problem.

I love sports, in particular hockey. We are talking about baseball but it could be any sport. If you were to consider professional wrestling and you were to have the same discussion then it might be ACCEPTABLE behaviour. It MAY NOT BE \'out of the norm\'.

If you were to talk about football it might also not be \'a big deal\'. This would not be the first time that we have heard of football players using steroids.

The acts of brutality, human or animal, are SO WRONG!

DL, I am with you, and I agree.

We should all do our part to make our mark and make the world a better place. Life is good.

My thoughts.

[87Flyer]

there\'s that saying \"it isn\'t cheating if you don\'t get caught\". i\'d bet my last dollar that EVERY major sport and even the ones that aren\'t major has prolly at the least 80-85% of the players involved using the juice.

it\'s not possible for a person to put on 10lbs of solid muscle in 2 mnths time, don\'t care who you are, yet it happens all the time. the juice has been used for a long time now, it\'s normal to be used, i can remember guys in high school using it all the time. buddy goes away for summer, comes back 30lbs heavier and ripped, hmmm, what did he do all summer.

anyone who thinks or says otherwise is keeping their eyes and ears closed on that one. the stuff is just part of what these guys do to survive in sport. why, because we all pay our money to see them, we all buy their shirts and the sticks they use and so on and so forth. from a young age they\'re programmed to believe that being an athlete is the ticket to an easy life. \"you play sports your rich johnny, now go get that scholarship\", \"k dad \", then little johnny hits high school and he aint so big or strong as the other guys and he decides that in order to \"catch up\" he\'s just gonna do a cycle or 2. next thing you know he\'s in the bigs juicing all the time and having his buddy piss in a cup for him so he don\'t get busted while the coach guards the door lol. its sports thats the way it is.

thats my rant lol.