Patrick Sharp: the price is sky high.....

[Dennis4022]

It was a good deal for both teams. Pokka along with Johns are Chicago highest dman prospects. It was perfect asset management for Chicago. We all knew what Leddy was. The Hawks chose Oduya over Leddy and it worked out. Leddy was never playing for Chicago past this year.

That was obviously the best deal the Hawks could get, and you pointed out the reason, why the had to move Leddym but two prospects for a young top 4 defender is not the regular price. The Isles knew about the situation and took advantage of it.

I think it will be the same with Sharp. Eveybody knows that the have to move one of the big contracts, the closer the season comes, the higher the pressure will be for Chicago.

[Daydream Nation]

I

That was obviously the best deal the Hawks could get, and you pointed out the reason, why the had to move Leddym but two prospects for a young top 4 defender is not the regular price. The Isles knew about the situation and took advantage of it.
.

It's convenient to say that now after this season has played out and Leddy was put in a good situation all season. Last fall when the trade was made nobody talked about the fleecing of the Hawks or the great deal the Isles received. It was just a salary-cap era trade. Most of Hawk Nation was satisfied with the trade.

And while we call Leddy a top 4 dman, 5.5M for Leddy is nothing to get excited about. He is an empty-calorie, defensive-liability 35+ pt puck-moving dman. Obviously, there is value there but he's not a player the Hawks dread moving on from.

[2014olympicgold]

It was a good deal for both teams. Pokka along with Johns are Chicago highest dman prospects. It was perfect asset management for Chicago. We all knew what Leddy was. The Hawks chose Oduya over Leddy and it worked out. Leddy was never playing for Chicago past this year.

Neither was Oduya tho.

If that trade happened with any other team besides NYR, or LAK, it would have been bigger. The biggest question was Leddy a product of a good system or actually a good player. And we found out he’s actually a good player.

It wasn’t a good deal straight up, but coupled with their cap situation, it was the best possible deal. There’s a big difference between the two. In a yr or two when Leddy has somewhat plateaued, and the prospects in the deal have developed, Chicago will prolly look pretty good at this deal. But they traded away a 24yr old (I think that’s his age) that was a legit NHLer for 2 possible NHLers.

This was a, “at least we got something for Leddy” deal. But now they’ve lost Oduya too, so if I was Chicago I would be asking for a d-man, forward prospect, and a pick, not a top 6 forward. However, what top 4/5 d-man is on the block with a cap hit less than 5mill? I don’t think any.

[fungchen3]

Patrick Sharp is 33 - no way he fetches that type of return. Especially since teams know the Hawks need to shed salary.

[ericdaoust]

Patrick Sharp is 33 - no way he fetches that type of return. Especially since teams know the Hawks need to shed salary.

It sounds more like something that would be said at the GM meetings after having too many drinks.

[Savvy1982]

Anyone lese see a decent fit for Dallas here?

Something like Cody Eakin, a 1st or 2nd, and one of their mid-tier prospects?

Chicago gets a decent top six forward who makes 1.9 million against the cap, and Dallas gets a serious upgrade to their own top 6?

Maybe I'm all wrong, but I'm just thinking out loud...

[rataylor22]

Dallas won't trade Eakin. He's too valuable to their team. And they don't really have a pressing need for Sharp.

Benn-Seguin-Nichuskin
Hemsky-Spezza-Ritchie/Sceviour/Eaves
Garbutt-Eakin-Roussel

They employ their pitbulls line as their shut down line and they do it pretty effectively.

[ericdaoust]

Dallas is already scoring enough goals. More firepower = diminishing returns. Only so many points to be distributed around. They need help preventing goals.

[Savvy1982]

Dallas won't trade Eakin. He's too valuable to their team. And they don't really have a pressing need for Sharp.

Benn-Seguin-Nichuskin
Hemsky-Spezza-Ritchie/Sceviour/Eaves
Garbutt-Eakin-Roussel

They employ their pitbulls line as their shut down line and they do it pretty effectively.

Always appreciate your thoughts rataylor - I'd rep you if I could!

[sammynos]

Don't see Dallas giving up their 1st this year either. From the mocks, there is plenty of juicy talent to go around at 12.

[Pengwin7]

Something like Cody Eakin, a 1st or 2nd, and one of their mid-tier prospects?
Chicago gets a decent top six forward who makes 1.9 million against the cap, and Dallas gets a serious upgrade to their own top 6?
Maybe I'm all wrong, but I'm just thinking out loud...

I think it's way too much.
I think CHI's demands are way too high... and I actually view their "statement" on Sharp return as simply a compliment towards Sharp and what's he's meant to their team.
He's still a part of their team (for now) - and they are just saying that they really, really, really value what Sharp has given them.

Realistically, I still think they will need to bundle Sharp (value) with Bickell (negative value) just to clear cap space.
Ultimately, the return is going to be very small.

There are not that many teams that have a ton of cap space.
Anaheim has a lot of cap space... they'll probably let Beleskey walk.
Sharp would be a good compliment for their PP1 talent, I think.

[hawkdog]

I think it's way too much.
I think CHI's demands are way too high... and I actually view their "statement" on Sharp return as simply a compliment towards Sharp and what's he's meant to their team.
He's still a part of their team (for now) - and they are just saying that they really, really, really value what Sharp has given them.

Realistically, I still think they will need to bundle Sharp (value) with Bickell (negative value) just to clear cap space.
Ultimately, the return is going to be very small.

There are not that many teams that have a ton of cap space.
Anaheim has a lot of cap space... they'll probably let Beleskey walk.
Sharp would be a good compliment for their PP1 talent, I think.

I think its to much as well but look at what Tampa got for MSL - a first, conditional second and Callahan - MSL is like 5 years older than Sharp. And MSL wanted out of Tampa.
The hawks do have the cap space issue but I think we something similar - slightly less value.

I could see Anaheim dangling a young dman - Depres/Lindholm/Vatanen - which would help Chicago for a year. Sharp would look good on their pp1

[Daydream Nation]

Neither was Oduya tho.

If that trade happened with any other team besides NYR, or LAK, it would have been bigger. The biggest question was Leddy a product of a good system or actually a good player. And we found out he’s actually a good player.

It wasn’t a good deal straight up, but coupled with their cap situation, it was the best possible deal. There’s a big difference between the two. In a yr or two when Leddy has somewhat plateaued, and the prospects in the deal have developed, Chicago will prolly look pretty good at this deal. But they traded away a 24yr old (I think that’s his age) that was a legit NHLer for 2 possible NHLers.

This was a, “at least we got something for Leddy” deal. But now they’ve lost Oduya too, so if I was Chicago I would be asking for a d-man, forward prospect, and a pick, not a top 6 forward. However, what top 4/5 d-man is on the block with a cap hit less than 5mill? I don’t think any.

We all knew going into last season that unless Crawford was traded, Oduya, Leddy, and Roszival would be gone after this past season. In order to get under the cap last season, the Hawks had to trade either Leddy or Oduya. Obviously, Leddy had more upside due to his youth but Oduya was the better player for the season which is why the Hawks traded Leddy and kept Oduya. And don't forget what Leddy's value was last offseason. He was getting very sheltered minutes in the playoffs and was even a healthy scratch for a playoff game. Now anyone who watches Hawks games knew Leddy's skills and his potential but it was unclear whether he would put it all together. It looked as if he had plateaued and with a future cap hit of 3.5 M or more (5.5 M with NY) he was a guy that was an easy trade. A lot of Hawk fans didn't think there was another level to his game. I tried to trade him in my deep fantasy league and all I was offered was a 4th and 5th round entry pick (basically, throw away picks).

Leddy had a very nice season which makes the deal look very good for New York. I bet a lot of GMs around the league wish they had made a better offer. But I stick to my thoughts at the time of the trade. I was rather pleased with the return, especially Pokka, since I knew Leddy had no future with the team and Oduya was the better choice for 2014-15. It's only now after Leddy had a good season that we say the Hawks had to sell low. This was not the general consensus when the trade was made.

All this goes back to the Sharp trade and the faulty premise that the Hawks will receive less because the Hawks have to trade him. Didn't happen last year with Leddy and the Hawks are in an even better position this year since the FA pool is shallow. Granted, the initial asking price is ridiculous but the return will still be adequate. And I think I read somewhere in this thread about the Hawks retaining some of his salary. That will not happen.

[blayze]

Sharp is what we would call a rapidly depreciating asset in the business world.

Chicago can posture all they want, but at some point they will have to face the realities of supply and demand. Sharpie won't have MSL's longevity for sure.

[Pengwin7]

I think its to much as well but look at what Tampa got for MSL - a first, conditional second and Callahan - MSL is like 5 years older than Sharp. And MSL wanted out of Tampa.
The hawks do have the cap space issue but I think we something similar - slightly less value.

This comparison doesn't work for Chicago though.
In return for MSL, Tampa Bay took back a BIG contract: 5+ YEARS of Callahan at $5.8m cap hit.
(I know Callahan was a heart&soul guy for the ol' Rangers... but he ain't worth that contract. I'd argue that Callahan is viewed by NHL GMs as a negative per-year value at that price. Cally more like a $5m guy - even value.)

If you are putting "value" on each piece in that trade... you have to consider it might be like this:
NYR late 1st round pick: 3/10
NYR late 2nd round pick: 1/10
Callahan: -1/10 (bad, long contract)
for
MSL: 3/10 (for 1.25 seasons)

Chicago can't do this (take back salary), so it's not comparable.

So, if we do this for Sharp... but realize CHI can't take value... here's what we get:

Late 1st round pick: 3/10
for
Sharp: 3/10 (as a potential one-year rental of a player)

I think THAT is what Chicago could get for one-year of Sharp... a single late-first rounder.
They only get the late 2nd rounder if they take back a slightly overpaid player.

Now... you can call this "a top six player + draft picks" for Sharp.
But it's really about the contract that goes along with that top six player... and CHI simply can't take a top six player salary back.


Here's the bigger problem for Chicago... Brian Bickell.
Bickell's 3 years at $4.5m makes him a massive NEGATIVE value.

Let's start again:
3/10: Sharp at $5.9m hit for one-year
-3/10: Bickell at $4.0m hit for three-years
------
zilch


Since CHI can't even give Bickell away... they need somebody to take him away.
And they may have to tandem gift away Sharp w/Bickell just to move out Bickell.